Never Mind!

As the effervescent Gilda Radner used to say, never mind!

Booklady! Opening a dangerous can of worms here!
I don't need any explaination, but I'm definately not a Latino! :o

Well, I have a question ... Who´s El Gordo and why does he have a night?

Consider the Can-of-worms opened. Next, a can of whoop-@$$. hehehe... (just kidding)

Do they have "El Gordo" in Latin America??

Do they use much olive oil in Latin America??? In Spain, with all the olive oil used there, you don't see many girls/women with "big butts". (thank god! :p ) Nor boys/men for that matter.

Are you suggesting that Spaniards are Latinos? If so, I had a long and very interesting conversation with my madrileña ladyfriend about this as I thought all Spaniards, Italians, and Latin Americans were considered Latinos at their "root". She said Spaniards, and most certainly Italians, didn't consider themselves "Latinos".

MM,
That's 'cause... we're not! :p

My Goodness, I have injured the sensitivity of MM Board Members! I don't want to have my ass whopped! :o

So on Behalf of the Editors of the Real Academia Española and myself, and for the sake of World Peace and Good Will To all peoples of Europe and America, We are sorry.

I will immediately notify the Real Academia that the Board members here are unhappy (and may resort to worms and violence) about any inference, even in jest, of being associated with the #@*# term Latino/a therefore they should expunge such a term!

My sincere apologies folks!

Carmendespaña, I grew up with "El Gordo." I don't know what other countries have called their loteries! Anyone?

Madridman,
I am defining "latino/a" as it appears on page 1353 of the Diccionario de la Lengua Española, vigésima segunda edición, 2001:
wereas Spanish was the first language I learned from my Spanish parents; and wereas Spanish is a language derived from Latin; I must conclude that within the confines of this definition, I am a latina. And proud! But, I will whip ass if anyone calls me "hispanic"! That's because I am old, my son does not care if he is referred to as Hispanic.

Many Latinos use Olive Oil, that's all I ever use, take a look at the ads in Vanidades a magazine for latinos! However, I have noticed that in Mexico they use manteca, lard a lot. I don't know about South or Central Americans.

Have a nice Day!

Problem is, although that's what the dictionary says, people associate it with being Latin American, and if I WERE latin american, I'd be proud, but I'm not, and I don't want to be confused. Same problem with the word hispanic. :p
It doesn't help that many latinos/hispanics, as its commonly used interchangibly, say that they're Spanish, when that's not correct. It just adds to more confusion!

Did you hear about the last world wide geography survey? Americans still don't know what's where! No wonder!

I am Spanish (and I hate to have to explain to people most of the time Spain Spanish) and proud of it! So to avoid confusion, I give a quick little lesson to those who ask, from where? (sad thing is, I had to explain this to a couple of Columbian girls once! :o )

Espe3, you had to explain to a couple of Columbian girls..from Columbia? as in South Carolina, USA Columbia, Columbia? eeeek i now see what you mean about Americans not knowing where's where and what's what! Damn,I hope you put them in their place. :o :o

No, the saddest thing is they were Columbian! Here we go, if they had been from Columbus, Ohio, or one of the Carolinas, that would make them from the United States, not Columbian!

The thing about Americans not knowing where things are... a few years ago, National Geographic surveyed young people all over the world and tested them on their geographical knowledge. When asked to point out a country, Americans faired the worst! Well, I don't know if it was NG again or not, but recently, another poll was done, and Americans STILL can't point out half the things on a map! Even having trouble pointing out the United States!

Very, very sad indeed.... Never mind.
lol lol lol

Wait a minute...much of English is also derived from Latin, so by that definition *I* am latina!

Wow, and I thought I was (mostly) Irish. And a little English. And Dutch. I don't think Dutch is derived from Latin, and I am pretty sure Irish/Gaelic is not derived (much) from Latin.

Hmph. Maybe that makes us all Italian. Or Greek, because didn't much of Latin come from Greek?

Oh, never mind!

Sorry to digress...

The word latino is just a political notion. Americans use this as a code word for mestizo, the racially mixed people of the Americas. Spaniards and generally speaking the peoples from the Plata region of South America are of European stock. And if there were large numbers of them in the States, I am sure that politicians and census officials would create a more limmiting ethnic term.

With respect to the RAE defintion of latino, I am now a latino given its breadth. I am of European ancestory and virtually all European tounges were influenced by Latin.

I've always consider myself 'latina'! However, I'll agree that many Italian and Spanish people call and consider ourselves Mediterraneans rather than (or on top of) latin.

I also consider myself a latino :p

By the way, I'm a latin european, not a latin american hehehe. Perhaps a more accurate term for describing the community of spanish speaking countries would be "hispano".

This makes me remember when I went to the States. After two weeks of living together, my host mother told to me: "I was very surprised when I saw you the first time, you could pass for an american. I thought you would be more like a mexican (that means, with indian skin characteristics)"

As you could guess, I blinked... Nothing wrong to be dark skin, but I'm european! (ok ok, we are something browner cause of the sun, and some europeans consider us africans :p , but we are still what is called caucasians or white).

Fernando

Yes, I guess we are hispanos (=hispanic) as well, of course; however, I believe that's the term that has the most "from Southamerica" connotations, at least for Northamericans, no? So, it's also a confusing word when you're refering to Spaniards.

Fernando, I don't agree that some (well, maybe a tiny minority) Europeans believe Spain to be part of Africa!, it's my impression that at least half of Europe has spent their holidays here at one time or another, and we share a lot of common history, I don't think they're so badly informed!

It was a joke pim Perhaps in the past it was true, but I don't think they see us that way now.

Fernando

Much to do about nothing. Bookie posted a joke, and people took it as being an "insult." It wasn't, and never was intended to be an insult. Bookie doesn't go there, and doesn't have to.

It's surprising how some people get all bent out of shape over a non-issue, after they were part of the Basque and Gypsy bashing party that we had on another thread. Before we take someone to task for what they say, we'd better take a good look at who we really are. As for me, I could care less if you tell jokes about my French, Basque, German, and Danish heritage.

Wolf (Whose idea of politically correctness doesn't spill over into a void where everything said is wrong.)

BTW..no big deal buuut..its colombians..not columbians..hee hee..i had to giggle..

Wolf,
Its not that anyone was insulted. I wasn't. It was a joke, I got it... I guess I should have ignored it though because it didn't have to do with Spanish?! Or did it?!? I'm just saying, there's alot behind that and it brings out different views on it... If you're in Europe, you'll see it one way- Like Fernando, if you were here and someone called you a Latino, its not the same as being called Latino in Europe- like you said about your host mother, if you had said you were "latino" or even Hispanic- in the US, that's understood as Latin or Central American... and the latinos use the term Spanish so much (that they are, not that they speak it) that in the US people still don't realize where Spain is... my boyfriend is Spanish, although dark skinned (could easily be seen as Latin american) and I tell him its easier to tell people that he's European than get into the Spanish thing!

Wolf, this board is all about learning and debate, yes? Please try not make everything into some kind of negative battle that its not.

Guapetona-Sorry for my type-o's. Sometimes I make a mistake or I'm thinking in 2 languages and I combine them- since I can't spell check this, it will happen from time to time. If it makes you or anyone else giggle, so be it.

So it would seem that I am not the only one who gets....disturbed, when I hear latin americans refered to as "Spanish". They even refer to themselfs as "Spanish"!! They are not!!!
I guess that makes all the english speakers "English".
The Spanish are from Spain.
The "Latinos" should be qualified with the ending "Americanos" (ie: "Latino Americanos").

Even the main character in the movie GLADIATOR whos origins was in the Iberia was "The Spaniard" not the Latino! I will continue to correct this as long as it falls within earshot.

Agur.

There is nothing to correct. The Latin Americans do not refer to themselves as Spanish. They consider themselves, latinos, latin american, latino americano, latino/a ColOmbian, Ecuadorian, Cuban, Mexican, South American, Central American.....etc etc. And they are proud of their country. 'Qualify'? Yes they are qualified 'Latinos'! Latin Americans espike espanis, ....totally mystifying I know, but brace yourself now,...they do.

Now what do the following persons have in common?

Julio/Enrique Iglesias
Carlos Gardel
Rudolfo Valentino
Sacha Distel
J-lo
Antonio Banderas, (counts for MM Antonio too)(MM too)
Ricky Martin jeje upps,...prrrr

ANSWER~
The oh so suave and sophisticated 'LATIN LOVER'

Miche,
Sorry to tell you, but yes, MANY latin americans will say they are Spanish when asked! Thus the next question that always follows, "Really, where from?" Instead of naming an area or city in Spain, this question is usually followed by , Columbia, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Chile, Ecuador...

Perhaps we should specify.. this is common in Latin american Americans. So, the people whose parents came from these countries, but themselves having grown up in the US. But even people directly from these countries, when in the US, will say they're Spanish. For a long time, and it continues, although because 'Latin' is 'In', not so much, in the United States there was/is a negative connocation with being Latin, so these people said Spanish, as Spain, being a part of Europe held a different category that was not negative. Even in these countries, many people still consider Spain the Madre Patria. Being decended from Spaniards (no matter how far removed the connection) also has a certain level of I don't know if prestige is the right word or not, but something to that effect. I know MANY latin americans, Chile, Ecuador, Puerto Rico, that hold a LOT of pride in being 'Spanish' (their great, or grandparents were from Spain). I guess it may be considered more like being blue-blooded or something. Who knows?!

I know I'll probably get tons of flames for saying what I did, but of the many people that I've met (in the United States- outside of the US I've found people from these countries to have a different attitude) its been what I've seen and know to be true.

I should also probably explain something else I've noticed, and took me a long time to get used to and accept. If you're in the US, and you ask (an american) what they are, they will most likely tell you they are Italian, Irish, Polish etc. according to what their heritage is. No problem, everyone understands this. Take that same person in Europe and when meeting people, if they do the same thing, you expect them to actually BE italian etc. and start asking them about the area in Italy their from and if you speak it, wouldn't hesitate to practice a bit, expecting them to understand you. In Europe, this person is American, their heritage is secondary to the actual proposed question. Its a different way of seeing things... there is a logical reasoning for why in the US people still state their heritage as where their from, but outside the US, this doesn't work.

uhhh...did something happen to the top of this thread? Or do those of us who got here late have to guess?

Cooter, who could consider himself latino, hispanic, cubanito, American and/or Spanish, but prefers to choose affiliations based on the principles of universal brotherhood, good will, and, of course, football.

This all sounds like one of the little language quirks we Southerners have...

I'm sitting in a restaurant and the waiter comes over and asks what I want to drink. I say, "A Coke." He's going to ask, "What kind?"

Pretty odd...but entirely typical in the South. All sodas are Coke, and then we have to backtrack and explain ourselves. This seems similar to the misuse of the term "Spanish" by some people in the U.S.A. Certainly some people don't understand that Spain is geographically (and linguistically, culturally, etc.) distinct from Latin America...but if Latin Americans (like all of the "Coke"-drinkers in the South) frequently misuse the term "Spanish" to identify themselves, is it any wonder everyone is a little confused?

For me, once I tell someone I want a Coke, a perfectly normal response on their part is to offer me root beer, diet soda, lemon soda, etc. If I really want a Coca-Cola, I can repeat my earlier statement, "No, I will just have a Coke," and they will know what I mean.

Pretty confusing! For some more detail, see the following:

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~almccon/pop_soda/

Espe3 is correct, some Latin Americans do claim to be Spanish, when in fact they are Mexican, Bolivian, or what have you. I have heard many noneuropean looking Spanish speakers claim they were Spanish. A Mexican friend of mine told me that when he hears an Hispanic claim to be Spanish he immediately chuckles to himself, knowing that it is common for middle and upper class Hispanics to try to pass themselves off as Spanish. Interestingly, many poor Mexican immigrants do quite the opposite to their wealthier neighbors, they claim to be direct full blooded descendants of the Aztecs. They are quite fond of tatoos with Aztecs dieties and they enjoy proclaiming that Californa and much of the Southwest are occupied territories of the Atlan (sp?) nation.There are a few, like the Californios, who can trace their ancestory directly to Spanish settlers, but they represent something like .00000000001% of the Hispanic population. In brief, I think how an Hispanic identifies himself in the USA is a matter of social class and not of real ancestory.

When I was in Spain I heard countless Americans identify themselves as Irish, German, and various other nationalities just as Espe3 has written. I had to laugh every time I heard such nonsense; although, perhaps I should haved cried for its display of American ignorance. Then again, given how poorly American do on standard geography exams, the US only bettered Mexico in a recent international geography test, it very well might be that these Americans thought that the nation between Mexico and Canada was named Ireland or Germany.

It is true that in some latin american countries the more spanish blood or spanish ancestors you have, the more well considered you are. Keep in mind that "criollos" (descendants of spaniards totally or partially) were a minority when american countries got independence. The great majority (up to 90%) were indians, and spoke native languages.

The wealthier people were the criollos, so the rest started to speak spanish to emulate them, and those pretending to have spanish ancestors were considered as high class people. It is curious how the spanish language extended itself by this method after independence. The natural process would have been its extinction in favour of indian languages (as guarani, quechua,...).

Fernando

Wolf, you are right! Much ado about nothing, indeed!

Cooter, sadly, I hoped that the poor joke had died a dignified death, I came back from a library meeting to see that it still lives, like a bad case of silverfish infestation in rare books!


After reading these interesting messages,and particularly Taravb's Coke posting, it became obvious to me that perhaps the root problem is indeed more of a cultural and linguistic one than any other variable.

I visited one of my favorite websites: Bartleby's and did a search of the terms latino and hispanic, I'd like to share the result.
Bartleby\'s led me to the The American H... Edition. 2000
LATINO
Inflected forms: pl. La·ti·nos
Noun : 1. A Latin American. 2. A person of Hispanic, especially Latin-American, descent, often one living in the United States. See Usage Note at Hispanic

Etymology: Short for Spanish latinoamericano, Latin-American, from latino, Latin, from Latin Lat nus. See Latin.

HISPANIC
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America. 2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

Noun : 1. A Spanish-speaking person. 2. A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.

Etymology: Latin Hisp nicus, from Hisp nia, Spain.

Though often used interchangeably in American English, Hispanic and Latino are not identical terms, and in certain contexts the choice between them can be significant. Hispanic, from the Latin word for Spain has the broader reference, potentially encompassing all Spanish-speaking peoples in both hemispheres and emphasizing the common denominator of language among communities that sometimes have little else in common. Latino which in Spanish means "Latin" but which as an English word is probably a shortening of the Spanish word latinoamericano refers more exclusively to persons or communities of Latin American origin. Of the two, only Hispanic can be used in referring to Spain and its history and culture; a native of Spain residing in the United States is a Hispanic, not a Latino, and one cannot substitute Latino in the phrase the Hispanic influence on native Mexican cultures without garbling the meaning. In practice, however, this distinction is of little significance when referring to residents of the United States, most of whom are of Latin American origin and can theoretically be called by either word. A more important distinction concerns the sociopolitical rift that has opened between Latino and Hispanic in American usage. For a certain segment of the Spanish-speaking population, Latino is a term of ethnic pride and Hispanic a label that borders on the offensive. According to this view, Hispanic lacks the authenticity and cultural resonance of Latino, with its Spanish sound and its ability to show the feminine form Latina when used of women. Furthermore, Hispanic the term used by the U.S. Census Bureau and other government agencies is said to bear the stamp of an Anglo establishment far removed from the concerns of the Spanish-speaking community. While these views are strongly held by some, they are by no means universal, and the division in usage seems as related to geography as it is to politics, with Latino widely preferred in California and Hispanic the more usual term in Florida and Texas. Even in these regions, however, usage is often mixed, and it is not uncommon to find both terms used by the same writer or speaker.
--------------

Fernando,
Your explanation about the diffusion of Spanish in the Americas is not a quite a correct picture of what actually happened. Let me share with you what your famous countryman, philologist,linguist, philosopher, and writer, Don Miguel de Unamuno explains what happened:
(publicado en La Nacion Buenos Aires, 13 de marzo, 1908. Aparece en el libro Obras completas: La Raza y Lengua por Miguel de Unamuno, edicion editada por Manuel Garcia Blanco, 1968.p. 592.
Roughly translated, I will use Spanish instead of Castellian :
"And what ocurred in America in regards to Spanish was different. There, in general, Spanish did not have to substitute indigenous languages, because those that spoke them, were either extinguished, or coalesced into the population of the colonies. The people that spoke Spanish there, were in general terms, descendents of Spanish people."

Saludos to all!

Well, what Don Miguel said it is not the opposite of what I have written.

Fernando Lázaro Carreter, ex-president of the Spanish Royal Academy of Language (Real Academia Española de la Lengua) and one of the best investigators of the language origins nowadays says in his Lengua Española (1995):

"In 1810, whe the emancipation of those countries (american countries), there were about three million spanish-speaking spaniards and criollos (americans descendants of spaniards, partially, with indian blood, or totally), and about nine million indians, most of them didn't speak spanish at all. The conditions were for the gradual dissapearing of our language, but it happend just the opposite: the linguistic hispanization of Latin America happened from the very moment of its independence. Nowadays there are fifteen million indians, and only half of them speak their own indigenous languages, and just a third ignore spanish.

The most important indigenous languages (of the hundred that existed prior to the conquest) that survive nowadays are náhuatl and maya (Mexico), araucan (Chile), aimara (Peru and Bolivia), quechua (Bolivia, Argentina, Ecuador,...) and guarani (Paraguay)."

What's more, in the past two centuries countless people from other countries (polish, italians, english,...) who went to latin american countries adopted spanish as their language.

Fernando

I'm thinking, maybe Fernando and I consider ourselves latinos from hearing the following song(by singer Francisco) so much when we were kids, he, he, he! :

"'Latino, tengo el sabor de una copa de vino, mitad señor mitad correcaminos, como una estrella sigo mi destino....'"

Exactly that. 'Some' Latin Americans may say they are Spanish. Perhaps their parents are Spanish and now live and work in the Latin Americas. For those whose parents are latin americans and choose to call themselves Spanish,...ignorance? Why should this irritate some people,it's just funny. They do not represent the Latin Americans as a whole.
What's this about choosing or not choosing to speak Spanish?!! Fernando, you couldn't be more wrong.

Can someone explain to me how this thread began, i don't quite get it. Plis.

Thanks Miche but, why?

I too feel that I'm not understanding the whole thread...

Is the discussion about "latino" and hispanic?

Fernando

Miche,

At least in regards to the Hispanic population that lives in the States, the number that claims to be Spanish and the actual number of Hispanics with Spanish ancestory is quite different. Socioeconomic reasons have compeled many to misidentify themselves. If the number of real Spaniards aproximated the number of pretenders, then Los Angeles would have about 1,000 less taco stands while having about 1,000 more paella restaurants. If I could only be so lucky

Fernando has properly mentioned that the number of Criollos in the former Spanish colonies of Latin America was rather small compared to the number of indians and mestizos. The highest number of Latin Americans with verifiable Spanish ancestory currently resides in Uruguay and Argentina, many there carry two passports as a consecuence. There was also a sizeable figure in Cuba prior to Castro, most of them have now relocated to South Florida. Although Castro himself , as the surname suggests, is from a Galacian family.

Well, I've missed the pleasure of the initial joke as it has been edited, I hope someone will kindly recap for the rest of us.
Referring back to the posts at the beginning....Italians do not mind being called Latinos, (Latins), nor does a Spanish and the same goes for a Latino latino. There is a difference as regards to the geographical context, and a linguistic one for that matter. I think we all know that.
Fernando, should the Spanish settlers have been forced to speak Quechua, as an example? Choice? No.
If a Spanish, Italian, Latin American etc. doesn't have a problem with the term Latino, why do some people on this board have?
Espe you have declared yourself as Spanish, I accept that. I have been following your plight to come to the EU and stay, but you are an American, I believe that's the problem for you, isn't it?
Much ado about nothing? Then restore the original joke and that's that.

Hola Miche,

As the person who posted this joke and in respect to people who have a great sense of humor and are folks, like yourself, Pim, Wolf and Cooter,let me explain what happened.

First, I placed the location of the joke in the "Non-Spain Discussion" section of the Board. A clear indication that the subject matter was not about Spain! The name of the joke, which I erased, and now I can't remember, to avoid just what is happening now, I think it was: You Know You are a Latino/a if. . ., or very similar, and it was similar in format to Jeff Foxworthy's “You know you are a Redneck if...” To me it was very funny!

The joke was given to me by my Cuban American cousin, and as someone has mentioned here, Cubans in South Florida have strong ties with Spain. First, because many Galician and Asturian immigrants settled there up to the middle twentieth century, and secondly because up to 1898, Cuba was a colony of Spain.

Until the last 20 years or so, many Spaniards became immigrants for political or economic reasons. These types of immigrants were very common in the late nineteenth century and to a lesser extent in the twentieth century. Now the Spaniards visit Cuba as tourists!

There is a periodical called “ Carta de España” which is solely about the Spaniards working and living abroad, particularly in the Americas, although some immigrated to other countries of Europe. Remember the character of Manuel in the BBC production of “Fawlty Towers”? He was a composite of Spaniards seeking out better economic conditions in Britain. Therefore the contention that the Spanish influence ended when Bolivar won independence of Latin America, or when the Spanish-American war ended, is not correct. Spanish immgration to the Americas continued until recently. Many intermarried with local indigenous people. The children of these marriages are in fact correct when they claim that they are of Spanish descent! And, that is the reason why many of us who were not born in Spain, Latino/as share many of the same customs as those Peninsular Spaniards! Including cooking with olive oil, or as Carmendespaña mentioned "El Gordo," that is a well know Spanish tradition in Christmas, as well she should know because she is from Spain! My aunt always has her aunt send her El Gordo lottery tickets

Other Cuban Americans on this board of similar ancestry, such as Cooter and Churrocaliente would have understood the joke well. However, that's when a few members mentioned that they were Spanish and not Latinos, as though being a Latino was less than desirable thing, poor souls, and mention was made of unpleasantness, at my age having my Ass whooped is not a good image!

These initial folks made the connection out of context, and disregarded the location of the joke. Because the initial response was so strong, I preferred to do a Gilda Radner, Never Mind, because some folks just enjoy being contentious, and some people just take themselves too seriously. Since I became half a century I realize that having a sense of humor is pretty much all you have left, after your sex appeal sags, you loose you hearing, teeth and hair!

Had I placed the joke in the Spanish section, then I would indeed have opened a can of worms as Espe3 contends, because then I would be calling Spaniards, Latinos and would have understood their strong response. I found that Spain's own Real Academia says that they are, but as a dear friend of mine said to me recently, the Academia has a gen for making silly errors and for keeping obsolete words around!

Obsolescence is imbedded in the nature of language. I am fifty years old, and I grew up termed as a Latina here in the U.S., and since that always had such positive connotations for me I was king of glad, I always wanted to be petite and pretty like Rita Moreno! But for those in my generation, the term Latino/a was anyone from Latin America the Western hemisphere who spoke Spanish and/or had Spanish ancestry! Now it has cultural undertones that offends some people. That is why I posted the information in the American Heritage Dictionary.

Another less savory issue is that there is a feeling that certain Latin Americans are less worthy than others. Cubans because we were recent Spanish immigrants are "more acceptable" than our friends in Mejico because they cross racial boundaries. The subsequent misinformation about criollos and the less fortunate "mestizo” emulating their Spanish betters makes for poor reading, and quite frankly I find abominable, for it lacks compassion and understanding of others. As Wolf said, these type of discussions have been seen in other threads on this board and brings about this type of negative debate.

Let's just let it end, since it just was a joke that Cuban Americans would have understood very well, and that other Latino/as on this board would have found mildly amusing, and our non-Latino/a friends on this board would have gotten a chuckle about our foibles!

I promise NEVER TO POST ANOTHER JOKE ON THIS BOARD AGAIN! :p
------------------
If you are interested in reading more about the topic of Spanish Immigration there is a wonderful book titled: Cousins and Strangers: Spanish Immigrants in Buenos Aires, 1850-1930. By José C. Moya (Berkeley, University of California Press, 1998) 567 pp. $55.00 cloth $25.00 paper. Here is a very short review that explains why so many spaniards chose the difficult road of immigration it is found in the Journal of Interdisciplinary History 30.1 (1999) 161-162
Another one about Cuba :

Elices Montes, Ramón. Los asturianos en el Norte y los asturianos en Cuba. Habana 1893.

Thanks Booklady. Please don't stop with the chistes. Hey what happened to all the jokes in Spanish anyway? ..chistes innocentes..? No more jokes? doh.

Miche,
FYI-
My Father was American and my Mother is Spanish. I was born in neither country and if you want to get right down to it, I am more Spanish than I am American.

Due to stupid clerical errors, no, I currently do not have the correct paperwork to verify this- something that will change in the near future. I don't see that this makes me any less Spanish, as I have been brought up Spanish and my family is still over there. I am proud to have an American half, but trying to support your argument by minimizing what I am or am not, doesn't strengthen it-and frankly yes, it is something I'm sensitive to- as I have had issues here in the US for not being American! The fact that I'm 'American' isn't a problem for me, the problem is that a simple error has made a little thing a HUGE issue for me. I recognize and ALWAYS will, that I am the result of a culturally mixed marriage and am proud of that mix. But I do identify with one side more than the other-it happens in lots of mixed marriages, be it a cultural or racial mixture- and that people see us as less or not as one of our sides is hurtful and ignorant.

If it helps you, my Mother and I can name at least 20 other Spaniards we know closely, do not like to be called Hispanic, or Latino, at least not in this country (the US) because of the meaning it holds here- vs. like I stated before in Europe where its real meaning is understood.

As far as the being less desirable/more issue. No, if I were from Peru, Argentina, Chile, Mexico, Puerto Rico etc. I would be very proud and want to be referred to as such, not clumped into some generic name that makes everyone the same. I want people to learn what it is about my country that makes it different, special. As when I travel I want to see and learn what makes the place that I'm in unique and appreciate it for that uniqueness, not how its the same as other places! What then, would be the point in traveling?! I think its the differences between cultures and people that make us interesting and gives us new and different things to learn from. Its the spice of life that makes it so tasty!

Booklady, I'm sorry that the commentary on your joke went the way that it did. There are some things that are hard to express over typed lines and have a different meaning or feel over a bunch of typed lines. You're right, it was on the Non-Spain discussion, so it should have been understood that way- or maybe not. Latino/a is a broad term and with the members on this board coming from every possible corner of the globe- its something that will be understood differently. I can't make an assumption on what I don't know. Next time I know better than to comment and won't. I'm with you, Nevermind! :p

Hakuna Matata

Espe, when you pointed your finger at 'others'you also had 3 of your own fingers pointing right back at yourself. Being half South American myself, I took offense to some of the comments thereafter. Not to the joke, I don't have a chip on my shoulder. Anyone who knows me, knows I'm up for humour. I'm glad you now realise that there are members from all parts of the globe who read this board,or who like myself and some others, represent both hemispheres. You started the whole thing about yourself. Perhaps you should have kept it to yourself if you're so sensitive.
For me the issue is over.

Hasta luego.

Sure miche. Whatever you say.
Truce, ok?