Why do yo like bullfights?

I don't like bullfights, I don't think they are fair, but as a part of my culture and customs I accept them. I've heard so many times people (Spaniards) complaining about the cruelty of the bullfight and I agree, but you cannot try to kill something that is going on in Spain since ... 1700? (I don't know the exact century)
Anyway, I went to 2 or 3 just because I wanted to understand why people like them but I still don't get it.
Why do you like bullfights? Wouldn't be better if they don't hurt and kill the bull? (as in Portugal) Do you think that someday the association of the rights of animal will stop the "Fiesta Nacional"?
And the most important question...Is it safe for a woman to go to a bullfight? Ja, ja, ja

[This message has been edited by Nuria (edited 08-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Nuria (edited 08-31-2000).]

why wouldn't it be safe for a women to go to a bullfight i don't understand that?

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Spain Page!! Check it out! http://www.geocities.com/missmadrid98/homepage.html?957296168010

Missmadrid, it's just the running joke on this board: is it safe for a woman to go on the metro, is it safe to walk around at night, is it safe to watch storks from a boat in the retiro, etc. As for the bullfights... according to experts, the fiesta nacional has deteriorated so much it is no longer an art. Truly barbaric. I predict it will be only an attraction for tourists and a few old men, and will gradually decline.

Bullfights are a unique combination of artistry and power. The matador in his/her suit of lights vunerable to the ferocious beast is a wonderfully symbolic diplay of man's struggles to tame and shape his/her environment. The artistic maneuvers of the matador in the face of danger is much more than a spectacle for tourists( MM -I hate that word) and old men. Picasso used the bull as a constantly occurring image in his works. He too understood the symbolic nature of the bull, and to turn away from this powerfull synthesis of power and grace would be to deny the world of this magestic event under the sun.
I hope that Spain and the other bullfighting apreciative nations never elimnate this artform that dates back to the Isle of Crete many milleniums ago.Those who oppose bullfighting argue that it is a barbaric display, as the bull has no chance to prevail. These people have missed the purpose and the profound meaning that the Corrida brings to the minds and imaginations of those who are open to the deeper symbolisim of the event. To spare the bull, as is done in Portugal, would lessen the significance as the dramatic closure of the event would be eliminated. This would be akin to leaving a great novel without the final chapter. The first chapters would never be tied together in a comprehensive fashion.
The English translation of "corrida" to bullfighting, I believe is responsible for many of the apprehensions of the non-Spanish speaking community. Prehaps, we should refer to it in some other manner.

I'll see you at the Plaza de Toros

I said the spectacle has deteriorated in modern times to the point where real aficionados say it ain't what it used to be. Throwing christians to the lions was also sport. What is barbaric is defined by the times. And the majority of people think that killing bulls as spectacle is barbaric.

We are in agreement- Bullfighting is not sport. To lable it as sport would be to abase it to an event determined by the bounce of a ball or the accuracy of a competitor. No, the Corrida is much more. We must change our mindsets so as to view it as an artistic display equal to any Broadway production, and as impotant to Spanish identity as the remarkable Zarzuelas.

BTW, I plan on buying the recommended book on Walks of Madrid, Gracias.

I'll see you at the Plaza de Toros

I did a term paper on bullfighting many years ago, and although I am not a huge fan of the art, I believe that it is as much a part of Spain as the old cobblestone streets, or cave hopping.
At any rate, in most cases the meat from the animal is donated to local orphanages, and facilities to help those in need. While the meat is no chateaubriand, if you are hungry, it is a welcome meal. Plus.... I hear "it tastes like chicken!" heh, heh!

I began to like bullfights when I first saw a real bull (~500 kgs) in a little "plaza" at my parent's "pueblo". It's amazing how much strong is a bull, the power it has. I was sitting very near the arena, and when the bull is 2 meters from you, believe me, it really scares.

Then, when I see the "torero" standing there, and the things he can do with the bull, not even moving his feet (see José Tomás, for example), it moves me (well, sometimes...)

I'm not a great aficionado, but I just like bullfights.

Saludos.

!Ole, Shawn!
For anyone interested, here's an interesting, and quite well-informed, essay on the stages of the corrida.
http://www.geocities.com:0080/Athens/Olympus/3371/text.htm

(The writer uses the term "matador" which, in my experience, is not so common in Spain, torero, diestro etc being preferred. He also points out that very few bulls actually make it to the ring).

The corrida is a unique Spanish art form, combining dazzling courage and physical grace with the "rawness" that arty-lass refers to in her "What is it about Spain?" post. Its forms permeate many aspects of Spanish culture, from flamenco dance to the art of Picasso.
Here's an example. Go to missmadrid's website, click the icon on the left - the "flouncy" male dancer. It shows a video of a guy dancing (very well!)part 3 of a Sevillana (it's normally danced with female partner). His posture is "torero", and he may, more or less, "torear" his partner.

BTW missmadrid, someone did actually post "Is it safe for women to go to Bullfights"!

oh ya i know someone posted that question about is it safe for a women to go to a bullfight cause i answered it. I just thought that nuria was serious and I was like oh goodness another one, so nevermind.

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In my opinion bullfighting can be interesting, boring and appear to be cruel. I have been to many bullfights in Spain and am able to watch it on my television at home and the ‘quality’ varies enormously. In Madrid the techniques and standards are high. However, try visiting a place in northern Spain like, for example, Estella and you will see very poor technique due to the size of the crowd and thus the available revenue.

Also you will see what I consider to be unnecessary and cruel handling of vaccas running through the streets and also in the ring at the end of the fight proper. The town population join in taunting and annoying the bull. I even observed one clever fellow somersault over a bull.

The end for the bull can consist of being slowly hacked to death by some amateur missing the relevant part of the bull’s anatomy.

Anyway, it appears to me that in a large ring, for example Madrid, with ferocious bulls, the point is that the bull is not made to do anything that does not fit in with its nature, that is to charge and try to kill moving bodies.

In contrast, I have seen a ferocious bull charge and leap into the ring so powerfully that it broke both legs immediately and another bull so timid that it was afraid to charge the Matador. It was of course lead off and allowed to live.

The participants in the spectacle that deserve most sympathy are the horses, but that’s another story.

Bull fighting's an acknowledged art form - with training as classical and rigerous as that of a dancer - and a lot more dangerous!
As Shawn & El Boqueron pointed out - bull fighting - and the emotions it evokes - are a part of Spain's culture and history. If someone feels it is cruel to kill the bull - they certainly can elect not to attend. But that's where that "right" ends - especially for those of us who are visitors in Spain!

The only time I went to a bullfight was in Southern France, and that was definitely of no use in developing a passion for bullfighting. The arena was pretty empty, the audience consisted obviously mainly of a couple of curious tourists instead of aficionados, the bulls seemed pretty slow and there was music from Carmen in miserable sound quality- altogether rather a parody and nothing to get something like a Hemingway feeling.
Whatever, I guess one has to distinguish between the questions whether one can relate to bullfighting on the one hand, and whether it is to be regarded as cruel on the other hand. I know people who even oppose to travel to Spain because of the bullfights (there were definitely NGO initiatives to promote this type of action), and I always keep telling them that at least that bull dying in the arena had a great life before, unlike most of the animals whose meat we eat. Many European cows and pigs hardly ever see the sun- and those bulls are outside, with lots of space. And then, the bull's meat is made use of as well.
Whether you like to look at the killing in an arena is another issue, but I think the cruelty issue is comparatively exaggerated.

The only live bullfight I've seen was a special one "de rejones" in las Ventas in Madrid. The bullfighter did everything but the final killing on horseback. The horse was not padded or blindfolded, and what the two of them did together was so incredibly beautiful, it was hard to believe that the three of them - the man, the horse, and the bull - had not spent days choreographing the whole thing! I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. The bull was finished off the usual way, by bullfighters on foot, and that part was quite boring compared to what had happened before. For those of you who enjoy and appreciate bullfighting, do try to see a rejoneo.

Hey, Rubia66:
I think you are mistaken in your belief that the meat from the bulls that are killed on a Sunday in las Ventas is donated. There is usually quite a queue at the carniceria where that meat is sold on Monday mornings (el mercado de Ayala and others). My wife used to go there to buy carne de los toros years ago. It was a little tougher than the beef we usually consume, but Europeans don't butcher beef like we do here in the U.S. - no T-bones or Porterhouse, so it was palateable. It did not taste like chicken.
P.D.
Some of the women in the queue would want cuts from a particular bull - perhaps they thought it would lend virility to their man.

As for bullfighting in general: I took my son to a bullfight (at his request) when we visited Spain for his H.S. graduation. I videotaped one complete bullfight. When we showed it to his friends, their excitement quickly turned to boredom. I would much rather spend a Sunday afternoon in Madrid at the Hipodromo or just 'paseando' in Retiro Park.

[This message has been edited by Eddie (edited 09-02-2000).]

Diana, you are right about the "rejones" (I have forgotten about that) that is very pretty. And now that you say about "rejones" and horses, have you ever seen Spanish horses dancing? They do that in Andalucia. The horses dance and it is sooooooooooo beautiful.
I didn't know that there are people who don't travel to Spain becasue of the bullfights, that sounds a little bit TOO extreme. So I guess those people don't travel to England because they haunt foxes or they don't go to Africa because the go to safaries and kill animals...

I love bullfights!

It might be that human nature is prone to violence (you may not agree), but I would rather watch a good bull fight and cheer with the crowd then watch a violent movie. Violent movies are so popular here. Who is the target of the violence? Other humans, usually but not always women. I would rather see the brave bull dripping blood as he gives the man a run for his money.

OK, so I haven't seen a lot of bull fights in recent years. Many years ago (1976) I got up every Sunday and read a chapter of "Death in the Afternoon" then went alone to a bull fight. This went on for about 11 or 12 weeks. I felt by reading I learned what was going on, then I had the hands-on experience each afternoon.

Death is present every bull fight. Death is in your face.

In the USA people shoot deer and other animals to eat. Every culture has a way of killing animals. Deer hunting might disgust people from other cultures. It even does disgust some people here in the USA.

I would give anything to be at a bull fight this weekend!

I too think that not traveling to Spain because of the bullfights is a little extreme.
I personally don't go to bullfights anymore.
I grew up in a family of aficionados, and used to attend corridas all the time, until I witnessed the death of a torero during a bullfight. That was it for me.

Eddie, I don't know if you currently live in the states, but there is an ad campaign running about meat, and the punch line is that everything tastes like chicken... It was a joke!
Additionally, as I said, the term paper that I wrote was in 1983, the information that I was given at that time was donation. Perhaps I was told wrong or maybe somebody has figured out a way to make an additional buck, selling meat that may make man, more like bull. Who knows?

Good advice, Diana. I agree with all you said about rejoneadors. I enjoy the conventianal bullfight, but to watch a rejoneador is something very special.

To those repulsed by the death of the bull, I don't share those feelings. Consider that up to his death the fighting bull has led a life of ease and luxury. He dies doing what he was bred to do and does it instinctively.
I suspect that whatever passes for adrenalin in a bull is flowing freely and permits him to disregard some of the pain.

Had he not been chosen to be a fighting bull, he would probably have been turned into an ox and died every day in some smaller way.
Cantabene

[This message has been edited by cantabene (edited 10-05-2000).]

I agree with the last post but as I said previously the horses involved are not following their instinct when being charged.
They stand in place blindfolded and as I understand it with their vocal cords cut-out.

Steve, I agree. The treatment of the horses is pitiable. That was the impression I got at my very first bullfight many years ago--and I have never had reason to change it.
Cantabene

Bullfighting is torture, not something you can like or dislike. It's not culture, most people seeing this are completely illiterate. It's not art, because art doesn't need to harm any animal.

People enjoing that are sick. They are as sick as people enjoying dog fighting, cock fighting...
This kind of people are the same that would go to human decapitation, hanging, lapidation, they also like blood and has no respect or sensibility.

Uki, we all respect your opinion but here you may not "flame" those whom feel differently from you.

Please respect the life choices of other people - no matter what that may be. If you feel those other people are walking down an ill-chosen, wrong, or immoral path then choose to HELP THEM instead of publicly persecuting and denigrating them. It's like trying to convince supporters of one political party that theirs is the worst and your political party is the best. You can try to educate people but you won't win much support by telling them how bad and immoral they are.

This/Your sort of behavior here on our message board is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Consider yourself warned. Future postings such as these will be removed immediately and your membership revoked. Here, we practice discussion without attacks.

Definitions:

per·se·cute (pûrs-kyt)
1. To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.
2. To annoy persistently; bother.

den·i·grate (dn-grt)
1. To attack the character or reputation of; speak ill of; defame.
2. To disparage; belittle: The critics have denigrated our efforts.

I must admit that I was hesitant approving your message board membership request after seeing your profile details, concerned something like this would come of it and, well, it seems I was right. You could've simply posted on tourism matters and all the while made your "personal statement" obvious by your always-visible signature file and (had you chosen to insert it) website address.

HELP instead of ATTACK.

Saludos, MadridMan

I love bullfighting and when yound was a trainee rajonero at La Monumental of Ventas Madrid!
its a tradition deep rooted in Spain, an Art form. Some do not like it, never understand Spain anyway. Many do and are not even Spaniards.
You must tolerate,the world is diverse; we included.

Darn!!

After seeing my first cockfight in the Philippines, I kind of liked it. Now I feel horrible. I enjoy watching the bullfights on TV in Madrid but have never had the opportunity to see it live. I'll have to try next time.

What in the world is lapidation? Or am I better off not knowing?

Lopping a head off and combining lopping + decapitation?

I just looked it up. Lapidation = stoning. No, I don't think I'd care for that.

That's a far-cry from bullfighting.

I have been to one bullfight, and watched a few on TV, and have been trying to get past my natural dislike of it. I believe that it would be a lot fairer without the picador. I think it is him that really kills the bull, that huge spike that gets pushed in so far. After that the bull is really on his last elgs, and everything afterwards is just cosmetic. I do kind of enjoy the spectacle, but would like it a lot better without the picador.

Been to a couple of bullfights, I was told there was a social scene to it, Also there's a strong sense of tradition.....never the less... it is gruesome, gave me a reason to drink.