Babies born in Spain

Maybe someone knows the answer to this... I have a friend (American) who is traveling in Spain for the next 12 months. She will be having a baby in Sept and the baby will be born in Spain. Both she and her husband are Americans - neither has Spanish citizenship nor residency. Would the baby be eligible for Spanish citizenship by virtue of being born there? I have looked everywhere on the web and found many contradictory statements.... I understand Spain doesnt recognize dual citizenship for adults but does in children until they are 18 - would a baby born to two americans in Spain be eligible for dual citizenship?

Cascada,

Maybe this will help. My daughter is half American and half Spaniard and born in the UK.
Until she was 18, she maintained an American citizenship. Although she still maintains her original citizenship, she was, after her 18th birthday, granted a British passport.
This does not grant her dual citizenship, but it does give her the opportunity to work and/or live anywhere in the EU countries.
She is working in Spain right now.

Cogito cogito ergo sum cogito

That's a good question. Traditionally anyone born in the territory of another country had automatic rights to citizenship of that country. That has begun to change in some places for immigration problems because illegal residents would have children in a country and then claim their right to legal residency because of kinship.

I'm inclined to think that if the child is born in Spain, it could be entitled to Spanish citizenship, but I don't really know for sure.

What I do know is that once given dual citizenship, it can't be revoked at the age of 18. That is, the person doesn't have to choose.

That used to be true in the past, but it was challenged and deemed illegal to force a citizen to give up his/her citizenship. My daughters have dual citizenship and its theirs forever.

A quick phone call to the Embassy or Consulate in your area should provide you with the answer to your question. Here in the US the child is automatically a US citizen, the parents have no such claim and that has caused more than one court case, always resulting in "the kid can stay but mom and dad have to go back across the border." Obviously they take junior with them when they go, but then they are frequent visitor to the local welfare office to get the benefits "due" the baby.

If neither of the parents are Spanish, nor do they have appropriate Spanish residency, I don't believe the child has any claim to Spanish citizenship unless the parents are unable to transmit their US citizenship. Most European countries do not have citizenship laws that are like the US (those born on US territory, born subject to the laws of the US, acquire US citizenship regardless of the status of the parents). In most European countries, at least one of the parents has to be a national of the country, or in some cases a permanent resident of the country where the child is born in order for the child to acquire that nationality.

I am afraid that the baby is not elegible for the Spanish citizenship, even if (s)he is born in Spain. These are the rules to have the Spanish citizenship by means of origin, none of them will be met by the baby:

1. People born of a Spanish mother or father
2. People born in Spain of foreign parents, if at least one parent was also born in Spain (Children of Diplomats and Consuls accredited in Spain are not included)
3. People born in Spain of foreign parents if neither of them has Spanish nationality or if neither of the parents' legislations confer a nationality to their children
4. People born in Spain and whose filiation is not determined. Regarding this point, underaged whose first known residence place is in Spain, are considered as born in the country.
5. Foreigners under 18 adopted by Spaniards acquire Spanish nationality by means of origin, that begins with the date of the adoption.

The baby has to reside for one year in Spain to claim Spanish citizenship.

Good to see this issue is getting cleared up. Interesting you should mention the part about residency Jabch. That's also a factor when passing your American citizenship on to your children.

What counts isn't the fact you have an American passport. You have to prove you have resided in America at least up to the age of fourteen, or after that age, a total of five years, if I remember correctly.

So, if my daughters never live in the U.S. for any extended period of their lives, they won't be able to pass their American citizenship on to their children.

I'm getting off the point of this thread here, but still I think it's an interesting fact.

Murdy, that's right about your daughters. But if your daughters decide to bring their kids to the U.S., they (their kids) are eligible for U.S. residency. I know it's nicer to have the automatic right to the citizenship, but at least they have a second option. My sister is in the same situation. Her husband is a U.S. citizen (through his mother) that has never resided for extended periods of time in the U.S. So his kids are not eligible for U.S. citizenship. They have to move to the U.S. and first apply for residency, not citizenship, for their children. Interesting, right?

Well, I am also sorry about the off-topic comments, but the grandchildren of Spaniards were arguing kind of the same thing. Italy, like other countries in Europe, grants automatic citizenship to grandchildren of Italian citizens. This way many Argentineans move to Spain with an Italian passport. While the grandchildren of Spaniards, who you may argue have more right to migrate to Spain, don't have the same opportunity. Grandchildren of Spaniards have to reside first for a year in Spain before claiming citizenship. Obtaining that residency permit is almost impossible for the grandchild of Spaniard, as he/she needs first to obtain legal employment to move to Spain. A Spanish politician, talking about this issue, argued that the grandchildren of Spaniards living abroad do not have a strong connection with Spanish culture and that they need to live in Spain first to develop that connection, and later become citizens…is she right? Who knows?

Torrales - I am getting even more confused than when I first asked this question... OK #3 of your criteria says
3. People born in Spain of foreign parents if neither of them has Spanish nationality or if neither of the parents' legislations confer a nationality to their children

This would seem to apply to a baby born to 2 Americans living in Spain then right? What am I missing?

CascadaDuSel, you are absolutely right. The issue is far from getting cleared up.

Before I just glanced at Torrales' post and didn't read it very carefully, but after reading your post and going back over it, I see that you have a very valid question. Point number three does seem to say what I suggested in an earlier post: that the baby would be elegible.

We can keep searching and see what we can find. In any event, I would also try to contact the Spanish Consulate and see what they have to say. The U.S. embassy in Madrid would probably know too.

Jabch, that's true about my daughters. I guess if their kids stayed long enough in the States, they too would be elegible for citizenship. The requirement of residency sounds crazy but I guess it's a simple and logical way of keeping control over immigration.

I love the one about Argentina. Isn't it unbelievable? There has been a fairly serious influx of Argentines since the latest economic crisis, so they must be getting in somehow. In fact, I know an American girl from Connecticut whose mother is an Argentine of Italian descent, and she got her Italian passport and has used it live and work in Spain. Boy talking about working your way around the system!

You would think that for having such a low birth rate Spain would want anyone born there to be a citizen :-) Just kidding before I get yelled at ... I was reading an article the other day - I forget where - that talked about the low birth rate in Spain and in, I forget how many years, the population would be predominently older - they were comparing it to the strain the baby boomers are about to put on the US Social Security system

You'd think so, wouldn't you? In fact, Spain's population has grown "dramatically" in the past five years mainly thanks to the immigrant population. In a sense, by having your child here, you'd be doing the in thing!

I am not a lawyer expert in citizenship affaires, I just copied the rules from a site I considered reliable. Well, it isn't and I want to apologize for that. The translation was bad.

After a better research, this is the official page of the Spanish Justice Ministry (the one that deals with citizenship) that mentions the rules to obtain Spanish nationality.

There is no difference between the page and what I posted about rules #1, 2, and 4. The 5th one is not mentioned in the official page, but probably is true, although not relevant for the specific case that is discussed here.

The problem comes precisely in rule #3. The literal translation of the official page is:

"Those born in Spain of foreign parents if neither of them has any nationality (stateless persons) or if neither of the parents' legislations confer a nationality to their children"

As your friend and her husband are not stateless persons, and as I suppose that US' legislation does bring to the baby a valid nationality, (s)he is not elegible at the moment of birth for the Spanish citizenship.

But as the co-forumer jabch mentions (and the official Webpage, too), any person born in Spain can claim the Spanish citizenship after one year of legal residency in Spain. The year has to be 'solid', I mean, 365 consecutive days (or 366 in case of a leap year). 6 months from 2002 and another 6 from 2005 are not valid. Even a one-day gap is enough to invalidate the period.

So, if the baby is correctly registered as a legal resident in Spain, one year later can ask for the Spanish citizenship.