racism in Spain

I just had a friend come back from Madrid and she told me something very disturbing. She said while in Madrid a couple weeks ago she was treated very rude by the people she encountered because she was black.She is a very nice person so I know she wouldnt have been mean to anyone. But can anybody tell me whats up with that? Black or white. Ive heard about the racist view some spaniards have toward African people but never took it serious. My friend told me once the people realized she was American their attitudes changed but should I be worried about being treated badly by the spanish people because Im Black? I'm not a scary person and I can take care of myself but I do want to be prepared.
Peace to all

While I'm not doubting your friend's experience, what made her think she was being treated rudely because she is black? I think there are a few threads in this forum about Americans being treated rudely by Spaniards but it may just be a perceptual thing. What's rude in the USA may not be considered rude in Spain. We here in the USA have very high requirements for the way we're serviced and this required service doesn't exist throughout the world in the same way.

Also, you may want to read the lengthy thread " Black in Spain " written by an American black woman on this message board.

Again, sorry to hear about your friend's experience in Spain. I hope it was just a misunderstanding.

Saludos, MadridMan

I don't think it's something normal that attitud against black people, although it's something more usual to be judged by the external appearance (clothes, piercings...). People in shops or bars could think you're 'suspicious' because of the way you dress.
There are a lot of threads about this, you can make a search.

With all due respect... I've been in the States, in Ireland and in England, and I've seen how common people treat and talk about blacks, and what I've seen is that (in general... as always) spaniards are much more natural with the issue than the people of these other countries.

I would say even more: In general people will try to be even more kind with blacks because they are different and uncommon in Spain.

Of course we have also idiots and racists that will try to make a clear demonstration on how their unique neurone is able to show the detest they have for everything different from themselves...

Fernando

Thanks! I dont know what she encountered but I hope it was isolated.

I’ve consistently heard that Spanish men are fascinated by black women but I’ve always wondered if there is any fascination between Spanish women and black American MEN. I mean if a black guy were to go out to a club, would girls be interested in dancing with him and possible taking it a step further or will they just stare at you like you’re an alien. To put it plainly without offending anyone, will a good-looking black American guy be able to meet girls to talk and dance with and ultimately hook up with? I know all the girls are beautiful but I really don’t want to have to just look and not get physically involved. I’m just wondering if anyone has any experience, maybe a friend who was a black guy or people you’ve seen at clubs…do they get any action or do people just think they’re freaks?

By the way. I really love this site. The people who post are really knowledgeable and the range of topics and excellent answers has really impacted planning my trip to Spain. Thanks everyone.

To be honest atrixo, I believe a black american man would have more difficulties to get involved with a spanish woman. In a society with such a small percentage of black people they are still considered exotic people (in all the senses, that may also work to your advantage in some cases).

That doesn't mean you won't have any chance. Today I have seen in a big store a young couple (he was black, and she was white) and I have remembered this topic

Fernando

My experience has been that "foreign=exotic", not just "black=exotic". I'm super-feo and pasty white but never had a problem meeting "las doncellas" when the mood hit me.

In many circumstances, I was the first American that people had met in person...this only added to the exotica of the situation. I tend to agree with Fernando's synopsis of the situation: Due to the relative rarity, a black man would have more difficulty forming a lasting relationship with a Spanish woman...for reasons of 'conditioning' if nothing else.

In other words, if you don't grow up in a diverse area, when diversity comes, it's not your natural draw, and therefore somewhat less comfortable to you.

As an African-american male, I have not experienced racism in Spain. Many people think that I am Cuban and therefore don't assume that I am American. I have been to Puerto Rico, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Mexico and Spain. Throughout all of these countries, I can't say that I have been discriminated against.

All in all, I don't go anywhere looking to be discrimnated against. I live my life to the fullest and if I feel that I am being discrimated against, I say something and keep on going.

Shawn

More than racism, I would say that classism is the true dividing line here in Spain.

Just being African (African-American) won´t necessarily mean that you will experience racism. However, as one Spanish friend pointed out, an African immigrant selling bootlegged CDs on a blanket in Sol is definitely treated differently than a decently dressed African making a decent living.

I am actually quite pleased to see the diversity represented on some of the newscasts here in Madrid. On Sunday mornings TeleMadrid has a multicultural newscast with 4 young journalists (25-30yrs old) each from a different country. The news is presented by them both in Spanish (with their unique accents) as well as their native language. Also on TVE1 there is quite an attractive female journalist who is of African descent (although due to her flawless accent, I would venture to guess that she is Spanish born).

Chica,

Thanks for such a good response. Many people want to carry their concerns about racism to other countries, and I guess that that's to be expected. I just don't do that. Everyone's experience in a country is very PERSONAL, with their experience being UNIQUE.

Shawn

hello everybody

chica
yes very true what youre saying.

by the way, im curious to know how you recieve telemadrid,being in castillayleon.i understand only madrid PROVENCE gets that channel.
i get tve on satalite tv which i would rate from 1-10 a 6 but thats because i have a special cable service.
in spain it isnt like that.
i bet you have tv segovia from tv castillayleon.
i rate this channel as 7.
not to criticize spanish tele but herein the us we have a bunch of crappy programming as well.
its just that spain has few channels(according to location of course)
saludos

for Sredw,
Its not about carrying racism to other countries but I will be in a country for 3 months alone and unfamiliar with customs there, if there is something someone can give me the heads up on I want it.

Madridman wrote:
I cannot agree with this statement enough. In the States, we are pampered more than you can imagine by high levels of customer service, and "politically correct" ways of saying things that sometimes come off as patronizing.

As Fernando stated, Spaniards are much more natural (read: direct) about many issues that in the USA people would trip over with care.

In my English classes, I have found that my students have a genuine interest in the "real" America. What is life like for a minority in the States, etc. I delight in sharing my personal experiences with my classes, by my experiences are just that, PERSONAL.

Everyone has a different reaction to the way they are treated and their expectations of being treated as such. Princess, I think you have a very good attitude about wanting to be informed about a different culture, etc. I have seen too many "ugly Americans" here get indignant when they aren´t treated in the way they feel entitled (meaning, not realizing that different cultures have different ways of acting). I hope you have a great and enriching trip here!

P.S. Miketheman, I can get Telemadrid without a problem as well as the TV programs from Castilla-Leon as we live practically on the border of Comunidad de Madrid and Castilla-Leon.

hey everybody

chica

oooohhhhh now i know.
yeah to think of it segovia is very near madrid provence.thanks for letting me know.

Atrixo wrote:

“will a good-looking black American guy be able to meet girls to talk and dance with and ultimately hook up with?”

Well, all I have to say to that is: good-looking IS good-looking.

While I totally agree with Fernando's and Chica's comments on the more natural attitude Spaniards have towards many things, I'm not that sure this topic is precisely a good example of that. Surely we are less politically correct about it, for instance, people here will call black people blacks ("negros/as'), and VERY rarely coloured ("de color'), or African-Americans ("afroamericanos'), etc….; without any "miramiento', but because we don't see anything wrong with saying somebody is black if we do say another person is white, they're both just two colours, AND two easily understandable terms, so frankly, I believe the other terms above, here, sort of sound artificial* and almost euphemistic to most people.
But what I'm trying to get at, is that I think it might be a little bit contradictory to say that in a country where black people are definitely not the norm, and where actually, up until quite recently, their presence was very rare (it still is in small towns), (growing up, in my school in Zaragoza they were only two black kids, and we must have been around 1800-2000 students, that sort of thing); which always entails people being curious toward that minority that's somehow different from us and from what we've always been accustomed to (let's not forget, curiosity is part of the human condition); we react, behave, etc…, in a more natural manner, or just as naturally, as they do in other countries where the interaction with blacks, or people of mixed race is much more common, an everyday thing.
Just a thought.

Now, does racism exist in this country? I say, absolutely yes. Specially, since in my book, racism occurs not only whenever someone treats somebody from another ethnicity badly (or worse), but everytime one looks at, speaks to, considers, judges,…whatever, you name it, DIFFERENTLY, than one would a person of one's own race. So, to give an example, if I may indeed glance at a mixed couple in the street, I am being racist, I'm guilty of it, but I'm also aware of that, and try to fix it, no doubt! (Mmm,….I have black acquaintances that might stare too! )

And, to the question; does classism exist in Spain?, my answer is definitely YES, but I also believe, that is an absolutely widespread big FLAW of every society that's ever existed. Of course, there are places in which this is less noticeable than in Spain, and other places where it's much worse as well (the larger the section of “middle class citizens”, the better; in nations in which there is a small, high class that rolls in money, and pretty much the rest suffer hardships,….imagine! :o )
But it is true that in many cases, if you mix both the race and class (gender and general appearance are a factor too) "variables', you get a very different treatment from folks!

*Artificial, is also how I think most Spaniards see the "American-type-service" (overly "caring"! ) that you get in the States or in American chain restaurants/eateries here. Although I'm one of those who would like to see the level of costumer service "mentality" in my country improve quite a lot. After all, we're close, but this is not France, so, rude ain't chic, right? :p

Hi Princess, Im new to this board so I don't know many people yet. Regarding your concerns about racism is only natural. We live in a country where race can be an issue. I have many friends who are black and work with many African-Americans. Every one of them that have visited Spain has told me the exact same thing...they LOVED IT! A close friend of mine is from Jamaica and he visited Spain for a month traveling throughout the country. He said all the people he visited were gracious and friendly and never encountered anyone that treated him disrespectfuly. Of course a woman traveling alone to a foreign country would want to be careful not to be vulnerable. There's not a country in the world where mean people don't live. Be more concerned with what you would be missing out and enjoy your trip!

I completely agree with Pim, but to clarify the point:

Does racism exists in Spain? Yes (as Pim said)
Is Spain a racist country? Absolutely no.

As any other country, we have a small minority of racists, usually extreme-righists. We have also some costumes that would seem racist (or that they are) to americans.

In Spain discrimination by race or ethnia is punished by law, and it is also reckoned by our Constitution. I would say that more than 99% of the spaniards you may encounter in your trips will try to be kind and respectful (even more) if you are a black american.

Anyway, if you meet someone rude or unpolite just ignore him/her and don't let him/her ruin your trip

Fernando

Thanks Fernando. You make some great points. I agree that racism exists and that doesn't mean Spain is a racist country. Two situations come to mind. First, an African-American woman classmate of mine told me that she was with her boyfriend in a bar. The boyfriend is Puerto Rican and Dutch, so they assumed that the bar patrons did not understand that he was a Spanish speaker. The other patrons made very derogatory remarks about the mixed racial couple. Are they a bunch of red-neck jerks in an otherwise inclusive society? Sure, I believe that. But racism, while not prevelant, does exist. (By the way, my classmate is in the process of becoming a legal resident of Spain, so I would assume the situation can't be that bad.)

Second, at the Spanish colegio our 4 year-old son attended in Sevilla, he was to play the part of a black page in the Christmas pageant. His teacher told us that he had to paint his face black for the part. We explained that in our culture this would be perceived badly and requested that our son take a different part. They were very gracious and accomodating. However, the director explained to us that in Spain, they don't have such problems because all people are treated equally. I wonder if the African immigrants selling tissues at traffic intersections would agree. My point is that with the burgeoning immigrant population and the historic lack of racial diversity, many Spaniards are not self-aware enough to recognize discrimination in their own society.

I couldn't agree more

Sometimes people is not aware on how insulting some of our ways of being can be, but also because, in general, people is not bad intentioned. Spaniards tend to be quite natural dealing with forgeiners, and that may be perceived as rudeness.

Let me tell you an anechdote. Though I had heard all my life "chistes" about blacks in Spain, I had never seen in my whole life treating a black bad (that is, with any difference from a spaniard), nor I had seen my family speaking in a racist manner.

When I went to the States (being 16 years-old) I heard something that annoyed and sickened me... I was with a friend of my host mother on 4th of July, watching fireworks near Washington DC. This woman pointed a black family and told me "See these people? Don't call them niggers, they would get upset" (she said it ironicly, with a smile in her face). I had never heard the word before, nor did I care about it (though the woman thought it was something I should know). I had been two weeks and I was already used to see blacks with much more frequency than in Spain, to the point that I wasn't aware of their presence... until that stupid woman call my attention.

I've yet to see in person something as sickening (or just half as sickening) in Spain.

Fernando

Hi,

I just wanted to add my own thoughts to this matter. I think that it depends on where you are in Spain. I spent a year in the east of Castilla La Mancha in a small village of 2,000 people. There I lived with a cuban woman who everybody talked about behind her back and everybody made jokes about her and didn't really like her. Also they were all very racist towards morrocans. So i think that Spain is a racist country but towards certain nations due to the past and the problems that the country experiences.
But when i was in Madrid and in Valencia there was no such comments made and everybody was a lot more open-minded. Also there exist a lot of racism to other regions within Spain but this i see as normal as it exist in the UK as well and is a natural response to the situations in which the regions find themselves.
just my opinion

I have a cousin who lives in Madrid. He has lived in Spain since 1977 and he considers it to be home. His esposa is a madrileña and their son and daughter have been educated in the American (?) School. They speak perfect Castillan and Pittsburghese. No easy feat!

Art told me that Spaniards really don´t like Arabs, especially Moroccans. Since I have yet to make my first trip to Spain, I only know what I have read or been told.

My esposa is Latina (caleña, de Colombia) and again, I have read that the Spanish of Cali is very close to that of Madrid. What I don´t know is how Spaniards view Latin Americans. If anyone can shed some light on this please let me know. We are planning a trip to Spain next year, hopefully to coincide wiht a visit to Normandy when the (most likely) final ceremony commemorating the D-Day invasion will take place. A great uncle fought in that battle and managed to make it home, so I want to see that too, even though it´s a little off-topic.

Sounds like the work of a facha to me?....