Questions for Spaniards here (PS I'll be off for Valencia in a month)

Hey guys,

I am going to be going to live in Valencia in about a month now and I was curious if any of you guys had any advice for me going in so I could keep them in mind.

Well, here is a question for the Spaniards. I am a little concerned about living in Spain after the attacks on America. I am not worried about terrorism, but more about the anti-american sentiment. It is apparent that many Europeans hate America and what it does around the world. I really hope that people judge me based on the fact that I'm an american. What is the general opinions of Spaniards about Americans? Do people typically distinguish between the character of American policy and the character of American people? I read message boards from Spain and they are filled with criticism. Now, believe me, I'm definitley open to criticism, and I realize that there are two sides to every coin. America has done some bad stuff and I realize that. But, I have read that most spaniards like to talk politics. Will I get grilled on US policy? What I'm trying to find out if most of the people in Spain have this anti-american attitude. What about with students?

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: Michael Allen ]

Hi Michael.

For years, the socialist party has backed an anti-american sentiment in our society (I'm sorry to say this, but it is true). Being anti-american was to be modern. They even were anti-NATO at first, but then they rectified and supported our entry.

Now things are rather different, and the only anti-american party is the communist one. But it is more about speaking against than of thinking of it. I mean that these close-minded people say bla bla bla about USA, but they can't really support most of their opinions.

Then, what will you find in spaniards attitude? In most cases no reaction. It is against USA as an ideal not against americans. I don't really think you may find anyone treating you bad, indeed, I believe that you will find people who will be more kind to you for being american.

After the 11th of September most of the people have simpathy toward americans, and the communists have polarized to the opinion "they've been attacked because of all they have done before".

Don't be afraid, american members of the board will give you their points of view of their experiences here

In the part that concerns me, you are most welcomed here

Fernando

Hi Michael Allen - As you might have guessed, this board is loaded with Americans - in fact, MadridMan is from Ohio. We keep going back to Spain - anywhere and everywhere in Spain - because we all love it. LOVE Spain and LOVE the Spanish people. If you read many of the posts relating to time spent in Spain you will discover an abiding love for the country and the people.

I have the feeling that you are going to be a student in Vallencia - there are lots of people on the board who, at some point in there lives were - or are - students in Spain. Take a look at these posts as well.

I can't believe you will have any problem as far as being an American. Fernando summed up the situation very accurately -

Enjoy your time in Vallencia! The rest of us envy you!

Hi Michael Allen,

So I'm another American, but Fernando made a good point. Let me offer some of my experiences.

The last time I was in Spain I traveled to a close friend's wedding in Malaga, toured Anadalucia, and then flew north to Bilbao. I spent a lot of time away from tourists, and was usually always the only (yikes) American around as my traveling partner was Latin American.

Now, let me get to you... As Fernando said, the attacks have polarized many in the country regarding our country and government. But that does not mean you will be verbally attacked wherever you go. In my opinion, the Spanish are incredibly wonderful people, and usually always respectful!

In my case, through friends of mine here in the U.S., I stayed in many family homes. What a wonderful experience. As in many "Latin" cultures, an invitation to the home is to be treated in the highest regard. Even with my gringo-white skin they made feel like family! It was in these homes I made some observations about the Spanish, from an American point of view...

Spanairds can be very passionate, by American standards. (A Spanish friend of mine joked to me in Santander that the Spanish could argue passionately about when the bus is coming) And you are right! When it comes to politics, the Spanish are quite alert to discussion. To an American they may to be in "attack mode." They are not, but simply confident in their views and hungry for civilized discussion.

This is a cultural trait that I found very very refreshing. If you are confident in your views, not arrogant, and respectful in discussion, it is my opinion that many Spaniards find the opportunity to talk with an American to be a real treat. Be your own personal American diplomat, I've found, and enjoy the ability to show other cultures that not all Americans are naive, loud, brash, and arrogant!

But beware. I have found American culture errors on the side of not offending others. Spanish are in no way to be considered rude, but I found Spanish people arn't as cautious with expressing their views. If your feelings get hurt...so be it. Don't take everything personally...chances are after a heated discussion a Spanaird with buy your drinks for the wrest of the night. I also found Spanish to be incredible generous people!

Most Spanish, especially if you're in an academic setting, you'll encounter are quite sophisticated, educated, well read, AND very opinionated. Even if they don't have a "formal" education, many are STILL very well read.

Go and enjoy such a beautiful and passionate culture. The passion, from my view, is one of most possitive attributes of Spain. Lively discussions will ensure you never have a "boring" time with the Spanish!

Let me leave you with a little advice a friend gave me. He happens to harbor some strong anti-American sentiment, but is always respectful of me, and he enjoys debating me on my country. After "true passionate Spanish discussion" I was concerned I might have offended him. He said, "no way, you didn't give me the feeling of needing to win the conversation - is was only a discussion."

If you want to be on the safe side, just avoid the "American" subject. You'll probably only get a few jabs. On the other hand, you said you'll be there a month. My suggestion would be not to miss the opportunity to try and "jump into the society and culture" I might even suggest engaging a playful Spanaird in a discussion.

If you are confident, willing to admit the U.S. is not perfect, and not easily offended, I'd say dive in and enjoy Spain's never-ending passion. It's part of the experience!!!

Have a great time. I leave in 10 days for Christmas in Madrid...can't wait!!!

Hey, Actually I'll be in Spain from January until August. Whoa! I had never thought how long that will be until just now! Trust me, I don't exactly take American foreign policy to heart. If someone takes a jab at American foreign policy It very well may be well-deserved. However, it should be noted that the reason, I believe that the American people are so ambivalent about foreign policy is because we live in a huge country and most people don't really think about other cultures because of that.

As far as being a gringo! Well, that is definitely a characteristic I have! I have very blonde hair and somewhat fair skin! I'm sure I will stick out a little. Maybe I should have gone to Sweeden but I seriously don't think I'll have a problem with Spaniards. I feel that being a counterexample of the Stereotype of Americans will show people that Americans are basically good people. Well, just to steer the discussion in a new direction, Does anybody know much about Valencia? I know it is next to the big resorts of Alicante, but I don't really see much tourist info on Valencia as much as I do for Sevilla, etc. This is a good thing I believe. I would rather there not be too many tourists where I go. however, I would like to meet some other Europeans on vacation there.

Hi Michael.

JJP and Puna have described us spaniards from an american point of view very well

It is very interesting to realise how you see us. That is something I understood when I went to the USA. I was used to talk about politics, religion and other such controversial issues, but man, in the USA those topics are forgiven!

I realised that some people get offended when I expressed my points of view, it was never my intention of course, but americans are quite sensitive in certain topics. Also, you make an extremely polite usage of the language, whereas we say things straight-forward, you use perifrasis and polite expressions to say the same. Our lack of that expressions will always end up in make us appear rude and unpolite (those expressions as "we will have to agree to disagree", "as far as I'm concerned", etc...).

Keeping on what you asked: Valencia is probably the third city in importance after Madrid and Barcelona (if not so, probably between the top five). It is quite industrialized but beautiful. The people is very kind.

Keep in mind that you will be near to Madrid (3 and a half hours by car), that you have the beach very near (moderate temperatures) and the best citric fruits you have ever tasted (Valencia is very famous, not only for the paella, but also for its citric fruits).

Regards.

Fernando

Michael Allen,

I don't think you could have a better attitude. You've either traveled quite a bit, or you are simply a born traveler.

Yes, you could be going to Sweden, but then you wouldn't be opening your mind up to what is different. Swedes have their own wonderful culture, but I think you'll find Spain to be culturaly energizing.

You may encounter some really really nasty anti-American sentiment. Such is life... It sounds like your confident, and know the good points of our American culture. Don't be afraid to point them out, in a solicited discussion!

I envy your upcoming in journey for over six months! I have no understanding of Valencia, but let me make some suggestions. Spain has a good (like all of Europe) train system, a surprising good bus system, and airfare prices have been coming down quite a bit. We flew AirEuropa (purchased on American website) from Malaga to Bilbao one way (in August!!!) for about $60 USD.

I'm sure you want to settle down in Valencia, put down some roots. Just make sure you take advantage of seeing the contrasts of the country. Bilbao, Madrid, and Sevilla, represent (in my opinion) much deeper contrasts than say San Francisco Chicago and Miami. Try to experience these wonderfully different cities. Oh, and San Sebastian (near Bilbao) feels almost like a Spanish Monte Carlo, of sorts...not to take away from its own uniqeness, though.

If you have any questions on Andalucia or the Basque Country (if you later decide to take weekend trips) let me know - I could be more helpful!

Michael Allen

I was in Spain during 9/11. Talk about feeling out of sorts with one's own sense of place and nation. I found that while most Spaniards shared a very stereotypical view -- that all Americans are full of %^&$ and full of themselves -- I never found anyone who didn't sympathize with what had happened in the US that day. In fact, I think people were actually even nicer to me than they would've been ... if you can imagine an already generous people being even more generous.

Having lived abroad for some time in my life, I can understand why the rest of the world sees us the way they do ... but what they don't know or don't mention is that the US is so vast and diverse, geographically and culturally. It's up to you to be your own ambassador and break the stereotype. You can also be a citizen of the world, who happens to have an American passport.

I heard all sorts of words about Americans while I was there. I was always diplomatic, even when someone would ask me if we really ate hamburgers all the time ... I mean the question made him look stupid, not the Americans he was referring to!

And as far as looking ... what does that mean? I'm fair-skinned and blue-eyed with auburn hair. My grandfather was born in Asturias and he was blond. I really don't have any American blood, but am still considered American.

I hold American citizenship, but my parents were born in Cuba and my grandparents were Spanish. The bottom line -- we "Americans" all come from somewhere else. Our country is young and our roots are not so deeply set as they are in Spain. When we are abroad, and especially after an event like 9/11, we are suddenly put under the spotlight, made vulnerable ...

Being in Spain during this time, when the US is redefining its national identity, can be quite an eye-opener. If I were you, I'd relish every minute of it! You can learn to appreciate your country from a more balanced perspective and you will learn a great deal about yourself and your relationship to your roots, wherever they are.

Enjoy your time in Spain!

Churrito

Well, I wish I could trace my roots back to the "Old Country," but I don't know where that is! Probably Ireland judging from my last name Allen. However through family tree research we traced our roots back to before the revolutionary war and that ancestor lived in North Carolina! Too bad, i guess. I knew about Austurias, which I have to say really appears interesting. It is Spanish, but people say the geography and people look sort of Celtic like those in Ireland. I find that really interesting. I hope I get the opportunity to visit there.


Anyone have any ideas for travel outside of Spain? I've already been to Paris, London, Brussels, Amsterdam and some cities in Italy. I was thinking of maybe Austria or Germany?

It just hit me the other day that I will be giving up English and only speaking Spanish in a month! It is exciting and a little sacry at the same time! I feel comfortable with my Spanish, but it is still weird.

Michael Allen,

Long, long time ago, the 'Celtas'(yes same people as the Irish) lived in the north of Spain, they had fair hair and eyes. The 'Iberos' in the south had dark hair and eyes, and were a little shorter, I think. Anyway, with time they all "got mixed up" and Spaniards today descend from the 'Celtiberos'. Only afterwards, we had centuries of moorish occupation, and that probably counts too.
And there are a lot of Latin American immigrants here today, just like in the US.

What I mean is, you won't necessarily stand out solely for being fair skinned, this is Europe!; I'm 100% Spanish and my looks have never stand out as Hispanic in the US or the UK, etc, quite the contrary.

I'm positive you'll be absolutely fine in Valencia!; if anything, in my view, the two topics with which Europeans have more difficulties "understanding" Americans are the death penalty and the gun control laws.
You may choose to avoid them, it's up to you; also, maybe these days, the whole war situation is touchy for some.

And as Churrito points out, some people deeply dislike it when someone, like an exchange student, gets here and seems surprised to find we wear regular clothes instead of 'trajes de gitanas'(flamenco outfits), or expect us to eat tacos, enchiladas, burritos, etc....with which North Americans are far more familiar with than us really.

And yes, there are some people with even strong anti-American feelings....About that....let them be, remember that unfortunately, envious people exist everywhere, if you know what I mean

Ah!, if you witnessed some man complimenting, or praising a female's appearance, don't think of it as sexual harassment!, he'll be saying a 'piropo', ha,ha!
We aren't as politically correct!

I believe you'll be in Valencia for 'Las Fallas'!, talk about crazy festivities!!!, M.A., I really hope you like firecrackers, fireworks, and anything related to gunpowder!!!
Valencia is the homeland of the 'paella'!, you'll be able to experience fisthand its many delicious variations :p


pim

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: pim ]

Michael Allen writes:
<< Actually I'll be in Spain from January until August. ... Does anybody know much about Valencia? I know it is next to the big resorts of Alicante, but I don't really see much tourist info on Valencia as much as I do for Sevilla, etc. >>

I shouldn't reply to your post because I am not Spanish and I don't live in Spain; but a few of your comments caught my attention: Valencia is a very 'hot' tourist destination in the summer, maybe even more so in March when they celebrate their Patron Saint with las Fallas de San José the week leading up to San José (Mar 19). Celebrations during that week (bullfights, etc.) take place all over the Comunitat de Valencia and as far south as Benidorm.

There will be plenty of European tourists in Valencia, mostly during the summer months.

As for Asturias: What do Celtic people look like? From the Principality of Asturias westward throughout Galicia one finds ruins of 4th Century BC Celtic settlements. Some historians say that a Celtic chieftain named Brehogan led his people from northwestern Spain to Ireland in the 3rd Century BC.

Peple we have litle resemblance to the 'spanish' you have met (I mean latinamericans).

We have been invaded with lots of cultures and races, from the nordic vikings (yes, it's true) and visigoths to the very black sudaneses and brownie arabs (both muslim tribes). So we are a mix of races. It is not uncommon to find blond spaniards, nor it is to find very brown people. Yet, we are (in general of course) as "white" as the french or the english (but more skin browned for the sun).

As every country nowadays you may find here inmigrants from eastern european countries, latinamericans and northafricans (which aren't black as someone may think), of course we have also center africans.

I say this because I know one of the topics about us spaniards is that we look as the mexicans (nothing bad attached to look as one) while we really look as europeans.

We are proud of being a mix of races and cultures Just as the USA is a great mixing of cultures.

Fernando

Hi Michael -

You asked about traveling outside of Spain during your six months. Just a thought, but there is SO much to see in Spain - SO much diversity in geography, history and cultural aspects that you might want to spend your non-school time traveling first through-out Spain. I think you will be surprised at the differences between, say Madrid and Cordoba - Valencia and Bilboa, etc. Trains and buses will allow you to explore the country while not costing a fortune -

BTW - Las Fallas is wonderful and fun - and besides being home to the best paella around, Valencia also grows the biggest and sweetest avacados I've ever eaten.

Hi Michael Allen! I am an American currently living in Spain, and furthermore, studied in Valencia about 13 years ago. Boy do I have many many fond memories of that time!

First with regards to your concern about being an American overseas after 9-11. I was at first very very insecure for my security, particularly because at the time we were living in Gandía (in Valencia region) and there are a lot of Arab and other middle eastern immigrants. However, I think it was due more to my hypersensitivity after following CNN.com and a number of other American media outlets rather than those people wanting to cause me harm. All people that I have run into here (friends and contacts here are everything but American--not intentional, just reality) have been nothing but the kindest folks. The women in my apartment building looked out for me, checked in on me to see how I was doing after 9-11. They were genuinely concerned... something that I truly appreciated finding myself outside of "my country" during an extremely difficult time.

The Spanish sentiment overall....at first I thought there was alot of anti-americanismo here as well. But that is not the case. As previously mentioned, Spaniards are very proud people, very well read, and very very much up to date on international affairs. I would venture to say more than the average American. As someone previously noted, the US is a very huge country, and we often get caught up in the differences within our own country without paying "as much" attention to international affairs save for the brief bit that appears on the 5 or 11 o´clock news. I have found understanding American foreign policy from an outside perspective a very educational and enriching experience. The anti-American sentiment here is more towards policy rather than people. You will not have to worry about your safety here in that regards. As an interesting twist, one of the most popular fashion icons here in Spain (prior to 9-11) has been the American flag imprinted on all sorts of clothing (thanks Tommy Hilfiger and Ralph Lauren...)

As far as Valencia is concerned, it is the 3rd largest city in Spain and is actively promoting itself as the Technology Capital of Europe. This image has been given a boost by the recent opening of the Prince Phillip City of Arts and Sciences. This huge complex has everything from an outdoor music theater to a science museum, pavillions and an Imax theater. These new, modern structures make for a unique contrast with the older architecture of the city. The oldest part of the city is set apart by remains of walls and entrance towers (Torres de Serrano and Torres de Quart). The second part of the city is separated by a now dried riverbed that has been converted into public gardens, and sporting areas. The city is bordered by the Río Turía. Once you can get those images straight, it makes navegating the city a little easier. There is an excellent, clean and efficient metro system that is well coordinated with the Cercanías train system (part of RENFE). If you have a PDA you can download free metro software that includes maps for Valencia, Barcelona and Madrid.

Valencianos are night owls and truly enjoy a good party. I recall one trip back to Valencia when I was invited to a friend´s birthday dinner. The people did not start gathering until 11pm. After dinner, drinks and disco´s, I headed home at 6am. My friend did not get home until 3pm the next day. Along that line, you will be in Valencia for Las Fallas...one of the most exciting and beautiful festivals I have ever seen (I liked it much better than San Fermín- The Running of the Bulls). Right along that time is all the celebration of Carnival (Mardi Gras) and of course Semana Santa. LOADS OF FUN.

Traditional foods include Paella, among many other rice dishes, citrus foods (The US gets many of its clementine imports from Spain) like oranges and clementines, and horchata (a drink made from the chufa or earth almond) You must also try Agua de Valencia!

Around Valencia be sure to see the Albufera, Peñíscola & Sagunto (to the north) and Denía/Alicante (to the south). I recommend avoiding Benidorm (known affectionately as the Manhattan of the Meditteranean)

Below are some weblinks for Valencia. Also try doing a google search.
http://valencia.lanetro.com/ http://www.upv.es/cv/english.html www.landofvalencia.com

Have a great time, if you want, drop me a note and I will put you in touch with some friends that I have in Valencia. They would love to show you around!

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Chica ]

Thanks for the info Chica, I must have not noticed your reply, because I just saw it. I will be off here in about 11 days, so it is getting very close! I appreciate you help, and man, you sure do have a lot of info. Only thing is that with blonde hair, I will probably stick out a little more, although I know not all Spaniards are morenos. I may want to get in touch with your friends when I get to Valencia

Michael Allen,

Don't worry about looks. I bet my mum who is 100% Spanish is just as blonde as you are!
Instead, one must ALWAYS think positively. Maybe you can 'ligar' more with the 'valencianas' being a little more "exotic".

Relax and enjoy. And if you have any doubt or problem, hey!, we're here!

Hi Michael....no problem about contacting my friends...just drop me a note when you get to Spain ¿vale?.

You seem preoccupied with being blonde and sticking out. In Valencia, there are alot of rubios/rubias...whether or not they are bottle blondes is another question. In fact, at a recent Valencian wedding of some friends, the novio was moreno and the novia very very rubia.

I too was concerned about sticking out, particularly because being half Filipina, I don´t fit the American sterotype very well. But like you, I enjoy breaking perceived stereotypes in my own little way. Just be friendly and like we Americans say "when in Rome, do as the Romans"...and you will be just fine! ¡Que te diviertas!

As a blonde, blue-eyed Americano - who just got back from Madrid - I have this to say:

Yes, you'll stick out a bit. Yes, some people will stare (as I felt many places) a while. But as everyone has said, even though the "nordic-look" is in the minority, MANY in Spain are fair-skinned and light-eyed.

I think the vast swath of looks - that there are many looks of a Spaniard - is one of the many reasons I fell in love with this country. Many European cultures have a "look," and Spain definitely does too. But, the fact that there isn't a homogenized look in Spain is one of the many great cultural traits of España!

As for me? Everytime I took my cold-weather hat off, and my glowing blonde hair was exposed, I sure did have a few looks and stares.

Someone said earlier in this thread: "...think possitively..." What great advice. This newly vulnerable feeling I had this time - of traveling abroad as an American - was wondering what they were all thinking. This was only paranoid thought on my part, and thankfully I got over it quickly. The reality was, they were probably just curious. I say enjoy the attention .

As a white American I think it's healthy to feel as a minority, an outsider - it gives one a better perspective in life. At least it has for me...

Well guys, I made it.

I am living in a nice house with a very nice madre, so I guess I have gotten very lucky. I have heard some people say that theirs force feeds them and is really controlling. The night life here is really great and better than I expected, but I guess it could be worse than madrid. I am learning spanish all the time. My madre cooks really well, so I guess I got lucky there too. I have been here for about 5 days and haven´t yet had to eat anything but one of her meals. Also, I have to admit that I really like the siesta. I always get a strong urge to sleep right after that huge lunch. I haven´t had paella yet, but Im sure its coming. I have had a few problems with the valenciano. It sucks in a way because you wonder if your spanish is that bad or if they aren´t speaking spanish. I have met some spaniards out a few times, but I have heard the best way to meet them is doing an english to spanish exchange sort of thing. Well, I guess thats all I can say for now

adios

Hi MA! Yeah the valenciano thing got me when I was living in Gandía last spring. Curiously enough, when I was studying in Valencia some 13 years ago, it was very unfashionable, in fact, something to laugh at... the valenciano. Nowadays (and I began to notice it about 3 years ago) the Valenciano began a resurgence in popularity and is now a regular asignatura in the schools. All the kids have to learn it and people have begun to speak it again in their homes.

However, in Valencia (capital) isn´t so bad because of it being such an urban environment, the first language spoken is still castellano. Wait till you visit one of the surrounding pueblos and they speak to you first in Valenciano! (until you tell them otherwise!)

P.S. If you haven´t already figured it out, some of the "nightspots" to check out are Canovas, Barrio del Carmen (ciutat vella) and Plaça Xuquer...they all have bars open till all hours and university aged crowds. Perhaps you can meet spaniards that way!

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Chica ]