Love of Spain

Ok,
So we all love Spain on this board including myself. I have never been the same since going there for four months in 2000. My question is this: Will this longing to go back to Spain and live ever go away? I told myself i want to live in Spain long enough until I am tired of living there. Right now, i'm broke. I just graduated in December with a degree in Spanish and Portuguese. But i feel that if i don't just pack it up and go now i will never go. I would love to hear from people who left it all and moved there and hear about your experience. Dime, por favor. Or maybe you are like me and want to go back to live.

Thanks

Brien

Hi Brien! What is it about Spain? I don't think anyone can really identify the infectiousness it has on most people. It is truly elusive.

On the topic of going back to live. Really, a lot has been said about this here on the message board, but the younger you are and the sooner you do it the better. As the years pass you get into job/career, relationships, your parents get older and all this "stuff" makes it harder to leave behind what you've accumulated/grown/acheived back home. If you're in your early-to-mid 20s (as YOU are) and only been working at a "real job" for a year or two or three I'd say NOW is the time. Believe me/us, once you reach your 30s, maybe have a family and a career with some promise, it's next to impossible to put it all behind you and start over at square one in Spain with few opportunities and hopes of making a living there.

In short, if you DON'T live in Spain now and you've never spent any significant time there, chances are you'll pine away with great hope, anticipation, and regret for the rest of your life. It's these 3 things which fuel MadridMan.com and isn't something that's likely to leave me anytime soon... UNTIL and UNLESS I actually do move to Spain. And then, who knows, maybe my perspective will change totally and maybe I'll realize I was wrong all along. I seriously doubt this now, but it's impossible to say for sure from where I sit today, at my desk in my office, in middle-America.

I say good luck to you and all who want to return to/live in Spain. And for those of you who know you won't ever realize this dream I say, "May the passion for Spain forever burn in your heart, mind, and soul."
And "Reality is rarely as rosey as we paint it in our dreams." (you can quote me on that original saying) Answer: I dearly hope NOT.

Wow, Brien, that MM is a WISE man! He's right. Also, have you read the posts from missmadrid98? She's in Spain now, having an incredible experience. If you haven't, do a search. So much of what she writes about mirrors the experiences I had there.

My parents sent me on a trip to Spain as a graduation present when I got out of college. I spent 3 weeks there with my sister, who was studying in Madrid. I promised at the airport that I would be back in a few months - I loved it so much. A year and a half later I did go back, planning to hang out there, teaching English, for a few months. I left everything here, and people would shake their heads and think I had lost it. It was just incredibly wonderful. So the few months dragged out, I got a real job I loved, I got married, had kids, and ended up staying 13 years. Now I'm in the States again, complaining to anyone who can bear it how bad life is in the States, and how good it is in Spain. As you can imagine, I then get asked, Why don't you go back? And MM is so right - it's hard to put everything behind you and start all over again. My family needs me here (that's why I came back), and they are the most important. I think of another international move, now that I finally got my house furnished the way I like it, and groan. Life gets so much more complicated as you get older, and moving abroad is no piece of cake when you have dependents to take care of, pets, a house to sell, the whole family's accumulated stuff, ever-more-complicated financial considerations... So, yes, MM is right, if you really want to do it, do it now when you're young. The worst that can happen is you run out of money and you'll need to come home. But you've got your whole life ahead of you to recover from that, and if you don't have dependents, you'll be OK. And you CAN live cheaply in Spain - I did it.

Do I still long to go back to Spain? You bet. But I've resigned myself to visits. It would be much too foolish of me to leave my job in the US now. So I live for my vacations. Luckily, because I teach, I have a good amount of time off in the summer, and luckily I have friends and family I can stay with there. But not everyone is that lucky. Retirement in Spain is another possibility, but that's sooooo far off, I haven't given it serious thought.

Go for it!

I totally agree with Madridman, especially about a person's age and where you are in life. I am 36, in a dead-end job (that pays too well to leave - the "golden handcuffs" as we call it here) and would love a change from a nice, safe, yet uninspiring part of Canada. Yet it is difficult to do because, although I am still unmarried (totally single actually), my neice and nephew are young and a joy to watch grow up and my parents are getting older. It weighs on my mind that I should be around for them yet, deep down, I want to make a big change. I just wish I would have done it in my 20's haha! Seriously, do it now. I also believe that the younger you are when you experience new things, the bigger the impact it has on you while you grow as a person, and you carry that with you for a lifetime. As an older adult you are more set in your ways and can be less reluctant to accept new things and personal change (not all people though). BTW I have never been to Spain (I was supposed to go in May and my plane ticket arrangements did not come through - aarrgghh!!) but, man, this website has convinced me that I was born to visit there, perhaps for a VERY long time! So, go for it! Good Luck...

If it helps at all, Brien, back in 1986 I was thinking exactly as you are now. My sister and brother in law were working in Jordan and loving it. My wife's brother was in Hong Kong, via Cordoba and several other places and we were in England getting itchy feet at the ages of 30 and 28. An interview in London came up for work in Marbella and I went along out of curiosity.

No kids, but leaving a new house with big mortgage and two good money earning jobs was the gamble we had to make. No contest! One month later my wife was trying to rent the house while I was starting work on the Costa del Sol, a place I'd never been to before. She joined me a few weeks later and we've never looked back. Sold the house 3 years later, effectively pulling up our roots with good Old Blighty, as we knew we were here for the duration.

15 years on, we earn a lot less money now and no time to have ever thought about kids, as we work bloody hard Monday to Friday, but hell's bells, we don't half enjoy ourselves! I often think about that day in 1986 and wonder what would have happened if we'd said no......

I want to go live there too, Brien, and I know what everyone else is talking about when they say that the longer you wait, the harder it gets!!!
I'm 26 years old, the daughter of Spanish parents, with a Spanish passport, and since the age of 16, have dreampt of moving to Spain!!!! My initial desire to move there stemmed from my very first love (who now lives in Vigo, married, with a daughter), but since then has grown into a love for Spain and everything Spanish. For many, it may seem as though I have it made, but it's been hard to let go of my roots here in Toronto. Until recently, I was in a serious 5-year relationship with someone who wouldn't even consider moving to Spain, so I just gave up trying to convince him. Now that I'm single, I also have close friends, family, and a secure (though unsatisfying) job to think about. It's hard to just get up and go when you also like the city you live in and the life you lead! Now, here I am, going back to Spain in less than a month, for 5 weeks vacation, on my own. I have been planning this trip since January and the main reason why I am going is to think of myself for a change, and the direction my life's been going in. I wasn't thinking of moving to Spain - that dream had been lost in my heart for a while. Just last month, though, one of my best friends returned from a backpacking trip through Europe and started RAVING about Madrid - she gave me a complete lecture about why I should go live there, and why I should do it ASAP! Anyway, to make a long(er) story short, she (and this message board :D) awoke in me the dream I thought was lost forever, and while I'm not moving over there right away, I AM planning on being there by August 2002 at the latest! Now, my solo trip has taken on a whole new meaning!
I have told a few of my close friends about my plans, and with some, it has been hard to swallow - I have a very special man in my life who doesn't want me to go and thinks that I'm being a little selfish, but I KNOW that if I don't go NOW, I will never go. It's time I thought of following MY OWN dreams, however selfish that may sound to some...
So, my point is, DO IT NOW!!! Make the plans, do some research on the 'net, read some books on living in Spain, and GO FOR IT!!!

SusiLaGallega

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: SusiLaGallega ]

Here's another testimony for you Brien, DO IT NOW!!!!
I was 23 when I went to Madrid for 4 months in '89...when I came home, the longing to go back took hold immediately! I sought out all things Spanish, planted myself on a bar stool at the best Spanish place in town, and tried to relive my experience!LUckily, I made Spanish friends and eventually my Spanish husband (he was a bartender at the restaurant ...
Anyway, the younger you do it-the better, even though his whole family is in Spain, we still can't decide if it will be a good move for us (we're thinking of going for a year)...our dear friends, my parents getting older, good paying jobs-those are tough things to leave behind when you get older.
It's alot easier to fly by the seat of your pants at 23 then it is at 33! So don't hestitate! GO and love every single difficult, happy, exciting minute of it!!!!

Brien,

You've heard some good advice. Always remember, as Americans, you come from a hearty stock that probably migrated here themselves. To take the initiative, and guide your own life wouldn't be new to you, or your family... it's already in your blood.

But above all, listen carefully to those who offer words of advice that say you should put a plan together, and make it work. Arriving in Spain without a plan, or any money, could sour you against the whole experience before it was over.

Anyway, that's my advice. Listen and be cautious.

Wolf (Who looks both ways at least twice, before crossing a busy street, even when the green walk sign is on.)

Wow you guys are great! So much great advice, i'm overwhelmed! I am 23 now and always ready to travel. I think you all understand this desire more than most. It's like, i don't want to be a tourist, you want to be immersed in the culture. Something my parents do not understand that if i don't use my spanish i lose it. It's not the same to be speaking spanish at the workplace as to be in a place where spanish is spoken. Madridman, i just picked up on the fact that you don't live in Madrid...i thought you did. Diana, i would love to hear your thoughts on why life in the U.S. is bad...This is a great forum...my friends do not understand my desire to go back to Spain. Alright, starting today, i plan on leaving by early 2002. I have some money saved already!
Thanks everyone

There's a line from a song by Mary Gauthier that comes to mind as I read this good advice:

"Sometimes you just have to do what you got to do and hope that the people you love can catch up with you"

The song tells the true story of the singer, who as a teenager stole the family car and moved to New Orleans. I was reminded of this song also when a friend of my wife's left a bad life situation and moved across the country to Las Vegas to start over. It takes alot to leave even a bad situation, and it makes it that much harder when your situation is comfortable or even good.

On another message board, someone was thinking of a change and asked:

¿Qué va a pasar si me tiro al barro ahora y sale mal? (What will happen if I jump in the mud now and it turns out bad?)

And someone answered:

Mejor embarrarte que quedarte en la orilla mirando.
Siempre.
Te lo digo por experiencia propia.

(It's better to cover yourself with med that stay on the side watching. Always. I can tell you from my own experience)

Someone else contributed this line from a Joaquin Sabina song:

y Sabina decia que \'...no hay nada peor que acordarse de lo que nunca jamas sucedio...\'

(and Sabina said "there's nothing worse than remembering what never happened")

So go for it! If you need more inspiration, read "Oh the places you'll go" by Dr. Suess.

Agree with you, caminante.
If you don´t take the first step, you´ll remain standing on the same spot for the rest of your life! So go for it, Brien!

Oh Brien, asking me what's bad about the US is asking me to open a can of worms! I hope I don't regret answering... Remember that these comments are based on my experiences only, and they may be very different if I lived in a different place. The US is awfully big, every area is different from the rest, and people are also different all over.

My complaints are really comparisons between my experiences here and my experiences in Spain (and Spain isn't perfect). I feel much more stress in the US. In the workplace, there's a lot more aggression and competition. Some Americans make their work their life, and the pressure they put on themselves and their colleagues is something I didn't feel in Spain. They wear me out just listening to them. Their search for power is something I don't care to be part of. The feeling I had in Spain was that people went about doing their own jobs, and when they went home, they forgot about work. And most (not all) did their jobs well! Socially, the same thing goes. Some Americans get all worked up about written invitations, written thank yous, the proper way to entertain, worrying about every little detail...(Thank God I got married in Spain! I wouldn't survive a wedding here!) In Spain, it was easier to just go out for a drink or tapas. Even entertaining at home was easier - more informal, less fancy expectations. The thing I really miss, though, is the sense of community. I live in the suburbs now, in a "chalet individual." No one too close. I have to take the car everywhere. My fault, I guess, but honestly, I didn't want to hear my neighbors through the walls any more (like I did in Spain). But the result is a strong feeling of disconnect from the people around me. I really miss public transportation. Even if you don't talk to the people in your bus or train, at least you're not alone. And I feel like there are more truly disturbed, dangerous people in the US. Maybe this is the fault of the media. Parents here won't let their kids out of their sight for fear of what may happen to them. Kids are totally safe in Spain, and everyone knows it. I want to be able to yell and wave my arms at a driver who does something really stupid and not fear for my life. I want to be able to walk through the countryside without the fear of stepping on private property and getting yelled at. So many Americans are so incredibly rude and so incredibly self-centered and demanding. Many - not all - Spaniards are more laid back - though there are plenty of rude Spaniards, too. As a teacher, I was automatically respected by parents in Spain. Here, the same respect isn't there. I have to prove I'm worthy first, for every single parent, every year.

Pretty awful generalizations, no? There are some things I like about the US. The opportunities to do anything I want without being looked at weirdly because I'm female is a big one. (This is getting better in Spain, but they're not in the same place as the US yet.) The ease of getting on the phone and getting anything at all arranged. I hate to admit it, but speaking my native language is less tiring than speaking my second language (actually, Spanish is my third or fourth). Life is much more complicated here, but at the same time, it's easier to deal with complications here than in Spain. (If only they weren't so time consuming!)

I think I might go hide now...

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Diana ]

Diana,

Thanks for the interesting commentary. I think that you have hit the nail on the head. I really could not have said it any better myself. I think that Americans are driven by materialism. I am not saying that i do not like material things....Everyone does. But i don't care about driving a Lexus, owning a big house, a boat, all that stuff doesn't matter. I have lived in Minneapolis for several years and although this is supposed to be minnesota "nice", it really is not true. People in Minnesota are very hard to get to know and figure out. They are very standoffish. I'm not saying everyone is here but there are a large number of people here. I live in the city, not the suburbs, and i still feel the same things that you do. That really doesn't change. I guess all you can really do is try to be nice to everyone and realize that not everyone will be nice back to you. I know what you mean about public transit in Spain...i loved riding the Madrid Metro. It was fun and i felt very safe.

Well i guess that is all i have to say...

Viva Espana!

No need to hide, Diana! I think your post clearly shows the mix of emotions most of us deal with when thinking of life in the US and Spain. I spent a year in Madrid and really didn't want to come home. My father died unexpectedly (he was 46) and there was no way I could leave my mother and my younger sisters. I'm not certain, though, that I could have "made it" as a proper Spanish woman of that time. Franco was in power and the limitations on women were really hard for me to accept (no slacks except on Sundays, no single women outside of the gated doors of their homes after 9:30, etc.) My landlady was always sprinkling me with holy water and praying over me because I just couldn't behave properly! Still, there has always been something so special about Spain that I find myself drawn to it in a way that defies reason and explanation...unless, of course, you are part of MM's happily obsessed group There is a goodness to the bulk of the Spanish people that I've dealt with that makes me feel good about being human. Children are loved and protected and no one there would think me strange for including my children in my dinner and theater plans (unlike my American friends who brought in nannies as soon as they got back from the hospital!). I am still considered a nut because my family sits down to breakfast and dinner together and because I actually cook! Americans seem to have lost so much of our connectedness!

I am, of course, bothered by the smoking in Spain...partially because I have always found the smell disgusting and partially because I have lost family to lung cancer and emphysema. I have become fond of my privacy and don't miss the noises coming from the patio de luces. I like our conveniences, and I appreciate the fact that as a woman I am much freer in the U.S. than I would be anywhere else in the world.

That said, I also know that as a woman I am frequently at greater risk here than I would be in Spain! I don't read much about crime in Spain...I don't think rape or physical abuse is as common there, but I could be just fantasizing! My children are free and not free at the same time! Public transportation here is a joke! And I agree, as a teacher, that we have to earn respect on an individual basis.

When I go to Spain now, though, and see all the tagging on the walls (even in special, protected places like Toledo), I wonder if Spain is in danger of becoming like us? I don't think ALL that grafitti is coming from a small group of foreigners! It seems to me that a certain disrespect for the property of others is starting to worm its way into Spanish society...no doubt disguised as personal freedom! Our female tour guide spoke of wanting to have the opportunities American women have to work AND raise a family and how they would like male and female roles to change a bit so that women no longer were expected to be solely in charge of all things domestic. Some shops (El Corte Ingles is a biggie!) are open all day, meaning SOME folks are not going home for those leisurely meals with family. I'd like to think that the way of life I so admire will always be a part of Spain, but I just am not as sure about it as I used to be!

My dear friend who is married to a granadino and spends 9 months a year in the US and every summer in Granada tells me at the end of May she is burning to get to Spain, and at the end of August, she wants to be back in the States! I suspect those of us who love two countries will always wish we could be in both places at the same time!

Just digressing a little, maestra, I happened to remark that there was a lot of graffiti appearing on this coast too. I open the weekly newspaper and here it is... http://www.surinenglish.com/csolnews.html

Scroll down to the relevant piece and you see how the authorities here are acting. 2 million pesetas fine for their mummies and daddies to pick up. Ouch!

Anyway, like I said, it's just an aside.....

Brien, we're poor as church mice, but it's now nearly seven pm, it's Friday and the sun is burning our eyeballs out! I'm going for a few ice cold San Miguels to relax with my friends at the Friday Night Club. Why don't you join us? All nationalities accepted Tonight there will be English, Norwegians, Swedes, oh, did I mention the Spanish? Americans are thin on the ground though. Be a pioneer! Enjoy the weekend

Thanks for all the interesting chat on living in "our" dream country. My husband and I have often talked about retiring to the Costa del Sol, at first it was wait till the kids have finished school. Now it's wait until they are settled in their jobs and own homes! But what is really delaying us, is the fact my husband has a lot of medical problems and the thought of having to pay for numerous medications, although not cheap here in the UK, would cost us a small fortune in Spain. Has anyone any thoughts on this subject?

Anchovy what or where is the Friday Night Club?

Doesn't your UK medical insurance cover you in Gibraltar? I thought that's why so many retired 'Brits' live on the Costa del Sol (i.e., because of easy access to Gibraltar)

This morning while playing tennis one of my friend asked me why I love Madrid so much and why would I not move and live in Madrid. Well that was a very good question. You see I am actually from Germany, left there at 18 and got married to a GI (still married to the same man). Life took over, then 3Years ago I've traveled with a group to Spain (Seville-Cordoba-Toledo etc.) I've met some people whom I fell in love with and our friendship is still going strong as ever. I long to go back every chance I have. Life would be perfect if I had the money to travel anytime anywhere, I love where I live, but I am so lucky to have these Two worlds to love. Follow you dream, but always remember that you will also have to wake up again. Your happiness is always paid with sadness, so if you are willing to feel the pain then you deserve the ultimiate happiness that youre adventure bring to you. Do the things you need to do and NEVER look back and regret them. But if your are not happy now moving to Spain will not assure your happiness. Good luck and always keep on dreaming and then pick and choose which dreams to go to.

I also agree that you should persue your dream of living in Spain when you can (before the difficulties and responsabilities of life make it more complicated). I really appreciate all of what Diana said about life in the US versus life in Spain. I loved living in Madrid, and wish I could divide my time between the States and Spain! If only we won the lottery! I have always wanted to spend summers in Spain, but my mother's ill health prevented it. I dreamed of bringing my daughters to Spain and having them fall in love with the Spanish life. It was never possible, until this year. It is bittersweet that because my mom recently passed away, I can go to Spain again and have my girls live my dream. This summer we will be going to Spain for 6 weeks! I haven't been to Spain for that amount of time in 12 years! I still cannot believe that in 2 weeks we will be there! I am so fortunate to be a teacher and to have the summers off to take such an extensive trip. My husband can only be with us for a little over 2 weeks! But we plan on doing and seeing alot (going back to some of our favorite places!)We met in Madrid and are passionate about it! So, I rambled and rambled...but my thoughts are with you Brien, have fun and GO TO SPAIN!

[ 06-24-2001: Message edited by: esperanza ]

For me, it was very difficult to make the decision to move to Madrid. I lived in Sevilla with my family for a year when I was 12. It wasn't easy because I didn't know any Spanish and I went through major culture shock. After I graduated from high school I backpacked around Spain with a friend and I loved it! I vowed to return for a year or more so that I could become fluent in Spanish. Well, it's been over 10 years and I am now married (no kids, though). I tried many times to repress this dream, but it just kept popping up, until finally about a year and a half ago, at age 28, I just said to myself one day, "That's it, I am going to save up and go to Spain, alone if I have to." I've been waiting for my husband to go with me back to Spain for an extended stay, but I have accepted that he just does not want to. That's okay, I understand that the thought of just going over there like that scares him to death. He also doesn't have the same passion for Spain, probably because he has not been there yet.

So, I finally decided to just go for it and go without him for a few months to a year. Yes, it will be very difficult, but he is a teacher and he will be able to visit me on all of his vacations. He is going to go with me in August for a couple of weeks and then he will come back to the States so that he can start the school year, and I will stay in Madrid. So, I just want to say, to anyone who lives in Madrid now, I would like to get together and hang out. So, please e-mail and keep in touch! I will be arriving in Madrid August 21st.

Eddie, I'm not sure that Brits do go to Gib for medical treatment to tell you the truth. If you are retired, or work and pay the social security, then you are entitled to the same treatment as a Spanish national. Also waiting lists are shorter here and the medical services are second to none in my opinion. People taking holidays from Britain, France, Germany etc can also obtain "free" treatment here by requesting the relevant piece of paper from the social security office in their country of origin.

I'm pretty sure that the treatment we get on the Costa del Sol is superior in any case to what can be obtained in Gibraltar, given their limited resources.

By the way, Sue, the FNC is nothing more sinister than a group of us having a drink, or several, to unwind at the end of the working week. It started with just a few of us from our company, then grew to take in sometimes 15 to 18 of us. We organise weekends away too and generally have ourselves a good time. Work hard, but lots of play, too. One thing I will say though, is that none of us takes it for granted. My wife and I and half a dozen friends had a very relaxing (hot!) day on a beach yesterday and you wouldn't know who was living here and who was on holiday. The big difference is we don't save up all year and pay for the pleasure of a nice weekend like the one we just had, but we NEVER lose sight of the fact that we are so LUCKY to be in a position to do that. I'm sure most people who have spent a considerable time here think the same.